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Thoughts from a random bible town

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grayson:
Please forgive my posts of random comments which don't really require discussion... and which are probably things you've all heard before.. It's just that I'm stuck in Bible Town, Indiana and have to come the SGU page to remind myself that rational people exist in the world.   You and the SGU help keep me sane.

Someone at work today brought John 3:16 (the lord gave his only begotten son) to my attention.  Since I couldn't say anything to him, I'm saying it to you.  It reminded me of when I had to go to Sunday school and they'd say things like, imagine what it would be like to give up your only son... but then they also tell us Jesus IS God, God IS Jesus.. So, it certainly can't be compared to a human giving up a child. 

Even with this anthropomorphic idea about God and Jesus, how selfless was it really?  I mean imagine living in the middle east in year 30. Imagine the disease, lack of medicine, the hunger, the violence, no Internet!, the unrelenting heat of the desert, no air conditioning, no airplanes, probably no chance of ever really going on a far away vacation to a place that doesn't suck...  But, you knew (with 100% certainty) that if you sacrificed yourself you'd go to paradise... for eternity!! AND rule the world as the number two of the creator of the universe AND you would know all and see all, so can do no wrong. 

Perfect bliss for all of eternity and be worshiped by billions.  All you have to do is suffer horrible pain for a day or two. Sign me up!  I'll ram the nails in my hands myself

I can't come anywhere near making sense of christianity.

BigDumbWeirdo:

--- Quote from: theryan on Mar 06, 2009, 01:09:25 PM ---Someone at work today brought John 3:16 (the lord gave his only begotten son) to my attention.  Since I couldn't say anything to him, I'm saying it to you.  It reminded me of when I had to go to Sunday school and they'd say things like, imagine what it would be like to give up your only son... but then they also tell us Jesus IS God, God IS Jesus.. So, it certainly can't be compared to a human giving up a child. 

Even with this anthropomorphic idea about God and Jesus, how selfless was it really?
--- End quote ---
(I took the liberty of adding a question mark where it seemed appropriate)
Not selfless at all. Jesus supposedly ascended to heaven after his supposed ressurection, remember? It's like sending your son off to work with the peace corps for a few years in a perfectly safe locale, then claiming you've 'sacrificed' him.
It's like loaning someone money, then after they pay you back holding it over their head how you gave them money out of your own pocket, boo hoo, I'm so altruistic.

grayson:
Thanks for the punctuation fix.  Don't look to close, you'll find tons of grammar issues with my posts.

Also, those are good similarities.  Its something I want to say whenever I hear someone say that verse in a heartfelt voice.  He GAVE... his ONLY begotten son. For YOU!  So that you could be saved!  He DIED for YOU!"

I just want to say, umm no he didn't.  He's in paradise living it up with Hendrix right?  We have thousands of people that have actually died saving someone else's life... and not just figuratively... and we don't worship them.

Anyone that claims to understand God has to just think about God saying to himself, "well I'm going to have to go to earth impregnate a 13 year old virgin so she can give birth to myself so I can be sacrificed 30 years later, or else these people are fucked! I don't see any other way to remedy this!"  Don't tell me you understand God! If you understand that logic you need to be locked up.. lol...

philoskeptic:
I was once a practicing, hook-line-and-sinker Christian and believed it all. But after awhile (I spelled it all out in a thread I started awhile back) I really started to look at Christianity as nothing more than fanciful fiction. How do we know Jesus died on the cross? It says so in the bible. How do we know the bible is accurate? It's the Word of God? How do we know there is a God? It says so in the bible. Kind of seems like circular reasoning, doesn't it?

I know this argument looks a bit like a straw man, and perhaps it is, but I don't think I'm not far off. You can also substitute the answer to the last question with "you have to have faith", but it all kind of seems like the same answer. Christians believe it because they want it to be true because it makes them feel good. And if that works for them, that's fine. Just don't preach to me, cause I really don't want to hear it.

BigDumbWeirdo:

--- Quote from: philoskeptic on Mar 06, 2009, 02:38:52 PM ---I was once a practicing, hook-line-and-sinker Christian and believed it all. But after awhile (I spelled it all out in a thread I started awhile back) I really started to look at Christianity as nothing more than fanciful fiction. How do we know Jesus died on the cross? It says so in the bible. How do we know the bible is accurate? It's the Word of God? How do we know there is a God? It says so in the bible. Kind of seems like circular reasoning, doesn't it?

I know this argument looks a bit like a straw man, and perhaps it is, but I don't think I'm not far off. You can also substitute the answer to the last question with "you have to have faith", but it all kind of seems like the same answer. Christians believe it because they want it to be true because it makes them feel good. And if that works for them, that's fine. Just don't preach to me, cause I really don't want to hear it.

--- End quote ---
I used to be a crusading creationist, so I know where you're coming from.
As far as it being a straw man, I don't think so. You've fairly accurately characterized both biblical claims and christian reasoning. At worst, it's a reduction to the absurd, which is not a fallacy.

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