General Discussions > Religion / Philosophy Talk
Protecting the Little Ones From God
SQ the ΣΛ/IGMд:
--- Quote from: wastrel on Mar 18, 2009, 07:01:14 PM ---
--- Quote from: Leslie 417 on Mar 18, 2009, 06:56:52 PM ---Again I'm sorry for your loss. I wish I could say something to make you feel better...
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This is the heart of what people mean when they say the god shit.
They want to say something to bring comfort, and to them religion does that.
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This ^
AaronSTL:
Thank you all for the condolences. My wife and I have decided it would be therapeutic for us to do something to create closure to this event. We are thinking we might plant a couple of trees in remembrance.
Am I completely biased or is there any way one could reasonably justify this kind of tragedy to be internally consistent with their theology?
SQ the ΣΛ/IGMд:
--- Quote from: AaronSTL on Mar 20, 2009, 01:12:13 PM ---Thank you all for the condolences. My wife and I have decided it would be therapeutic for us to do something to create closure to this event. We are thinking we might plant a couple of trees in remembrance.
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What a wonderful thing to do.
jawmo:
--- Quote from: AaronSTL on Mar 18, 2009, 09:17:47 AM ---In January my wife and I found out we were pregnant. We were ecstatic. We just got married in October and we wanted to start having kids right away. Realizing I was going to become a dad was the most amazing feeling. I started planning the near future in my head, just imagining the possibilities. She had her first doctor’s visit about three weeks later. When they performed the ultrasound they told her that we had twins, but one had stopped developing. That was pretty devastating. Ever since we talked about having kids we decided we would love to start off with twins. We were conflicted by mourning the one we lost and at the same time happy about the one we had. We decided we had to persevere and just concentrate on the positive in our lives. The next week she had another doctor’s visit, a routine checkup in for her condition. When they performed that ultrasound they told us the other one had stopped developing too. No heartbeats, nothing. That was absolutely crushing. Two days later they performed a procedure to remove them from her body.
Friends, family and coworkers have done the usual to console us, which unfortunately means being told that "Everything happens for a reason" or "god has a plan". Being nonbelievers, we have been trying to make sense what those statements could mean. Could they mean miscarriages happen so that god can teach a lesson to the parents? If so, god can’t be all loving since he allows the suffering of the babies that are developed enough to sense pain. Could they mean there was a problem at the start of their development and so god stepped in to save them from an unfortunate life? If so, what the F@#&? Why not just not allow the pregnancy to start in the first place?
I might be biased by emotion but I think miscarriages, stillbirths, etc are pretty good evidence negating the idea of a god’s existence. If there was a god and for some reason he really needed to design the universe so that some pregnancies had to end without going to full term I’m pretty sure he could have made every single one of those pregnancies end before the parents were even aware of them. Not having miscarriages wouldn’t negate our ability to have free will. We wouldn’t start thinking “Oh man, there are no miscarriages, we don’t need faith, there has to be a God if there are no miscarriages”. Not having miscarriages would just make the universe more perfect.
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So sorry Aaron ... my wife and I went through the miscarriage ordeal (though luckily much earlier in the pregnancy); I'll never forget driving to the ObGyn's office, my wife holding a bell jar holding the "fetal material," as our child-to-bed was thereby christened). We'd been "trying" for almostover a year, so this was not just a tragic loss, it seemed a kind of cosmic dirty trick, a perverse practical joke played on us by a Supreme Being .
But my wife underwent a procedure called D & C (I think), which effectively cleans out the walls of the womb somehow, and in very short order our first child was born.
Do I think some supernatural entity was at work here? No. Sadly, these things happen all the time, and always have. I refuse to believe that any God hates us so much as to put us through the ordeal of miscarriage, then a few months later change his mind and decide to let us have a beautiful baby girl after all.
Skeptress:
I'm so sorry for your loss. I think planting trees sounds like a nice thing to do.
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