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Author Topic: Episode #211  (Read 5194 times)

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Chew

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Re: Episode #211
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2009, 05:47:36 PM »
WTN: Walt Kowalski in Gran Torino. (Too easy to Google).


I haven't even seen Gran Torino and I knew what WTN was.
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Trinoc

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Re: Episode #211
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2009, 05:53:31 PM »
Rebecca, you just married an English guy ... did you really not know what "fanny" means in the UK? ???

Sorry, I don't follow. Wasn't Rebecca the one explaining what it meant to everyone else?

Yes, but she said the "alternative" meaning applied to Australia. She claimed not to know whether it applied to the UK or not.
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Be skeptical of the things you believe are false, but be very skeptical of the things you believe are true.

Trinoc

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Re: Episode #211
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2009, 06:04:25 PM »
I didn't understand the comment about gravitational energy canceling out matter-energy for something like a net energy of 0. Never heard anything like that before, and it seems to contradict my layperson's understanding of physics (if gravitons exist, they must be massless). I am wondering if that is a statement that can be made scientifically rigorous.

Gravitational potential energy is zero "at infinity". Obviously you can't really be at an infinite distance, but you can imagine potential energy tending asymptotically to zero as the gravitating bodies get further apart.

Now, as bodies fall together under gravity they accelerate, i.e. they gain kinetic energy, so they must lose potential energy. But if that energy started out at zero when they were infinitely far apart, losing some of it makes that potential energy go negative.

Of course, because they don't actually start infinitely far apart, they start with a small, negative potential energy which gets larger (more negative) as they fall together. The potential energy starts higher (less negative) if the bodies start further apart, but the rate of increase with distance tapers off so that the total potential energy never goes positive, but only gets closer and closer to zero as the distance increases.

(Just to complicate the issue slightly, potential energy can be positive if two bodies are repelling each other, e.g. the same poles of two magnets, but since gravity is always attractive its potential energy is always negative.)

[Edited to correct confusion between "larger" (more positive or negative) and "higher" (tending in the positive direction).]
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 06:13:27 PM by Trinoc »
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rolla_costa

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Re: Episode #211
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2009, 06:06:07 PM »
I wanna say that the strawberry Kefir  smoothie is friggen delicious.
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kem

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Re: Episode #211
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2009, 06:30:58 PM »
Its too late by now but I hope Rebecca got that most remarkable (I can't remember the name of it) drug that allows one to be fully awake, hich seems to be most helpful to the dentist, remember nothing and have teeth extracted without discomfort.  I had four molars removed for radiotherapy this way and was quite impressed, though sorry to lose those teeth.
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GodSlayer

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Re: Episode #211
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2009, 07:16:39 PM »
where does a guy have to go to find a girl who finds 'did you hear about Lenski's study of e coli?' to be an appropriate line to indicate sexual interest and win her affections?

for that matter, hopefully next year TAM does a better job having their panels represent the true numbers of southern-hemisphere skeptics--we are not second class citizens!
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Steven Novella

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Re: Episode #211
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2009, 07:24:46 PM »
Godslayer - thanks for the analysis. However, you took the question to a depth not possible in the podcast, and made many assumptions along the way.

I did not even touch upon the whole naturalism question, and what we could know about a deity, or about the subjective values of faith and religion. I stuck to one point, which is what I though the point of the question was - if a god did exist, then mutually exclusive factual beliefs about that god could not be equally true (or valid - I think both apply). I was careful to say "facts" about the god to limit the scope of my discussion.

Yes, of course, we could never know what those facts really were - that is a separate point. And I did not even discuss what the existence of such a being would say about the nature of reality - I just assumed for the sake of argument that the god was part of nature in some way without getting into the question of supernaturalism.
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Evil Eye

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Re: Episode #211
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2009, 08:27:03 PM »
Who's that Noisy is too easy.

Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino.

Duh...
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Evil Eye

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Re: Episode #211
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2009, 08:27:56 PM »
WTN: Walt Kowalski in Gran Torino. (Too easy to Google).


I haven't even seen Gran Torino and I knew what WTN was.

Damn you both!

I just got to that part of the podcast.
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Luke 14:26 (New International Version)

26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple." - JESUS

Cat Jockey Fanboy

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Re: Episode #211
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2009, 08:40:32 PM »
Once again we suffer an example of why SGU should not tread into philosophical territory.  (it wouldn't be so annoying if not for the history of complaints about philosophers talking science)

I agree with GodSlayer. If you can't be bothered to study this important work and know all the nuanced arguments and then take that knowledge and hold us captive with your riveting tales of Hume and Spinoza, then it would be best that you mention them not.

After all, it's obvious you all REALLY want to join GodSlayer in the lucrative, rock-star world of Philosophy majors and hold epic sway over the masses.  Don't lie about it.  Oh, I know you "talk science real pretty" but let's be honest.  In the past 200+ episodes you've made dozens of casual remarks about philosophy and even quoted philosophers!

How dare you tread in the garden of philosophy without putting on the special clothing required to walk unscathed by our lovely but thorny arguments!?

What's next?  You'll opine about Star Trek without giving the episodic context of the reference?  Or you'll comment about eating some food without giving us the recipe?  I'll not have it.

You have been warned!

If you continue to casually talk about philosophy I dare say I shall have to hold my nose up at you and cough imperiously.
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GodSlayer

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Re: Episode #211
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2009, 08:41:04 PM »
I stuck to one point, which is what I though the point of the question was - if a god did exist, then mutually exclusive factual beliefs about that god could not be equally true (or valid - I think both apply). I was careful to say "facts" about the god to limit the scope of my discussion.

right. that's kin to how you spoke of 'truth' in what I quoted. however, 'facts about god' is itself not the most clear term. One [this being a philosophical issue] would expect that this does not mean mere material objectivities, but includes what we might call philosophical facts.--The kinds of facts which one must consider in addressing the concern of a religion's 'validity' are not merely the brute facts of an extant creator and an extant people'd world it created. The facts of God's personality could be such that a wide array of lifestyles and forms of worship (multiple daily prayers, communion, oxen sacrifices, fasting, self-flagellation, etc.) would be perfectly acceptable, much the way that for a government anything not 'illegal' is acceptable--there is no 'one path', but a wide range of freedom within the scope of 'the law-fearing life'.--A theological equivalent is easily conceivable; in other words, his analogy for why if any religions should be followed it will be only one of them*, is mistaken. Perhaps that analogy would be useful to the emailer (as the Christian has 'God-fearing' (i.e., 'enjoying one's life and free-will within the bounds of respectful obedience of one's accepted law-giver') as a key concept in their doctrine).

*as an aside, this is what I suspect for his concern, more so than mistakenly coming to think there is 'definitely a true religion out there' rather than 'one -or none-' as you pointed out. I'd suggest this since the idea of belonging to the sole true religion [in this world of competing religion and evangelistic hopes] is more often the concern than whether or not religion itself is right, given that god-belief is so thoroughly accepted that the question for them is not so much 'god or not?' but rather 'what way of life pleases god?'.

I just assumed for the sake of argument that the god was part of nature in some way without getting into the question of supernaturalism.

it's is not important to the emailer's concern, but I'll note nonetheless that this very notion, however, is in direct conflict with the 'transcendent God' concept of the monotheism which accounts for the overwhelming majority of god-believers in our world.--If you were to dispute that, and speculate that a non-supernaturalistic god concept was to be discussed, I would argue you're no longer talking about something warranting the title 'religion', and I'd suspect it to no longer count as what you called a 'matter of faith', and instead would be subject to expectations of evidence as surely as big bang cosmology is. In such a case, it would there be true what concerning monotheism is actually merely a philosophically naive assumption, Dawkins claim that 'a universe with a God would be radically different to a universe without one'.
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GodSlayer

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Re: Episode #211
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2009, 08:43:37 PM »
re: the vitamin D talk.

I googled quickly to confirm my curiosity--I have indeed heard somewhere in the past of 'two kinds of vitamin D'.

is that at all relevant to the discussion of deficiency?--are both kinds important? does a deficiency of one or the other make much difference?
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GodSlayer

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Re: Episode #211
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2009, 08:48:52 PM »
Once again we suffer an example of why SGU should not tread into philosophical territory.  (it wouldn't be so annoying if not for the history of complaints about philosophers talking science)

I agree with GodSlayer. If you can't be bothered to study this important work and know all the nuanced arguments and then take that knowledge and hold us captive with your riveting tales of Hume and Spinoza, then it would be best that you mention them not.

After all, it's obvious you all REALLY want to join GodSlayer in the lucrative, rock-star world of Philosophy majors and hold epic sway over the masses.  Don't lie about it.  Oh, I know you "talk science real pretty" but let's be honest.  In the past 200+ episodes you've made dozens of casual remarks about philosophy and even quoted philosophers!

How dare you tread in the garden of philosophy without putting on the special clothing required to walk unscathed by our lovely but thorny arguments!?

What's next?  You'll opine about Star Trek without giving the episodic context of the reference?  Or you'll comment about eating some food without giving us the recipe?  I'll not have it.

You have been warned!

If you continue to casually talk about philosophy I dare say I shall have to hold my nose up at you and cough imperiously.

I don't consider opinions widely held today which have caused countless forms of chaos and injustice throughout history, opinions which are more popular than any alternative medicine or paranormal creature, to be analogous to banter about Star Trek.

nobody ever died, was abused, subordinated, manipulated, starved, burned at the stake, sent into battle, or tortured because the way they honor Spock was different to yours.

the question at issue is one at the heart of the very passion for evangelism and conquest.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 08:51:57 PM by GodSlayer »
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Chew

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Re: Episode #211
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2009, 09:17:49 PM »

the question at issue is one at the heart of the very passion for evangelism and conquest.


You mean I just spend 20 minutes trying to decipher all that post-modernist nonsense you just wrote and I got it wrong?
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Cat Jockey Fanboy

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Re: Episode #211
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2009, 09:47:35 PM »
I don't consider opinions widely held today which have caused countless forms of chaos and injustice throughout history, opinions which are more popular than any alternative medicine or paranormal creature, to be analogous to banter about Star Trek.

nobody ever died, was abused, subordinated, manipulated, starved, burned at the stake, sent into battle, or tortured because the way they honor Spock was different to yours.
Precisely why you and I need to make sure that nobody makes any casual references to Philosophy!  It is obvious that SGU Zoo Crew don't understand that this is the Internetz!  They can speak casually about Star Trek and only have reprecussions on the forums.  But if they accidentally say the wrong thing about Philosophy - clearly millions of people will die.

You summed it up far better than I could, and you may become my new lord and master.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 10:08:42 PM by Cat Jockey Fanboy »
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