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Author Topic: Sexism in the Skeptic Movement?  (Read 10295 times)

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sketchy

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Re: Sexism in the Skeptic Movement?
« Reply #630 on: August 18, 2009, 10:35:23 AM »
Regarding the sexual objectification of female athletes: It's more than just coverage of women's gymnastics, although you will hear many more adjectives about female gymnasts' appearance during commentary or sports reporting than you hear about the male gymnasts. I don't think women's gymnastics gets more coverage for sexual reasons; I think they run it so often because women will watch it a lot.

I'm thinking about things like: how WNBA players have to take make up and outfit planning lessons, or how they are frequently referred to as wives and mothers in their personal interviews (compared to details about NBA players' stats or team history); the differences in the uniforms of male and female volleyball players; frequent observations about the looks of female golfers as a group, or if they are all lesbians (not necessarily by professional journalists); the various and frequent description of women tennis player's athletic dress in articles that are not about what all the tennis players are wearing to Wimbledon; constant reassurances to the audience that although so-and-so is physically fit/strong/powerful, she is still graceful/feminine/pretty. Stuff like that.
you hear more comments because beauty and pose is considered important in women s gymnastics.  they do all the silly crap with their hands on the balance beam, and the silly dancing on the floor routines.

Men's gymnastics is about power and strength.  Women's coverange is greater because womena nd little girls like watching it.  Girls are more enrolled in gymnastics too.  So more coverage will get more girls into gymnastics, making more money.  You don't see any tiny guys doing gymnastics, and for the record, you don't see many ugly men doing gymnastics either.

As for the women interviews, they bring up what is important to them.  Many in the WNBA who have kids are proud that they are mothers.  You hear the same thin from very successful business women.  they like to tout that they are also successful wives and mothers.

sketchy

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Re: Sexism in the Skeptic Movement?
« Reply #631 on: August 18, 2009, 10:43:45 AM »
When Pamela Gay starts waving the Sexism flag, I'll know something's wrong, until then...
um.. every time my wife hears her voice she says

"Damn, that's a sexy voice!"

Citizen Skeptic

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Re: Sexism in the Skeptic Movement?
« Reply #632 on: August 18, 2009, 10:44:37 AM »
Regarding the sexual objectification of female athletes: It's more than just coverage of women's gymnastics, although you will hear many more adjectives about female gymnasts' appearance during commentary or sports reporting than you hear about the male gymnasts. I don't think women's gymnastics gets more coverage for sexual reasons; I think they run it so often because women will watch it a lot.

I'm thinking about things like: how WNBA players have to take make up and outfit planning lessons, or how they are frequently referred to as wives and mothers in their personal interviews (compared to details about NBA players' stats or team history); the differences in the uniforms of male and female volleyball players; frequent observations about the looks of female golfers as a group, or if they are all lesbians (not necessarily by professional journalists); the various and frequent description of women tennis player's athletic dress in articles that are not about what all the tennis players are wearing to Wimbledon; constant reassurances to the audience that although so-and-so is physically fit/strong/powerful, she is still graceful/feminine/pretty. Stuff like that.
you hear more comments because beauty and pose is considered important in women s gymnastics.  they do all the silly crap with their hands on the balance beam, and the silly dancing on the floor routines.

Men's gymnastics is about power and strength.  Women's coverange is greater because womena nd little girls like watching it.  Girls are more enrolled in gymnastics too.  So more coverage will get more girls into gymnastics, making more money.  You don't see any tiny guys doing gymnastics, and for the record, you don't see many ugly men doing gymnastics either.

As for the women interviews, they bring up what is important to them.  Many in the WNBA who have kids are proud that they are mothers.  You hear the same thin from very successful business women.  they like to tout that they are also successful wives and mothers.

I had a similar discussion with a friend who was a tennis pro. We got to talking about prize money, attendance, etc. I'm not much for watching tennis on TV but if I do, I'd rather watch the women. Specially the ones who looked like my friend. She wasn't happy with me, but hey, it was the truth.

But for most sports, I'd rather watch those who perform at the top regardless of sex. I'm not a basketball fan anyway, but you'd have to tie me into a chair and glue my eyes open to get me to watch a WNBA game. If I'm going to watch basketball, I'd rather see the boys play.

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Trinoc

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Re: Sexism in the Skeptic Movement?
« Reply #633 on: August 18, 2009, 10:53:45 AM »
Tennis has this crazy rule that the player serving has a free hit with the first shot, as if serving was not enough of an advantage in itself. The result is that the top men's game is just a penalty shoot-out, with both players trying to fire in aces all the time. They seem to regard a point that goes to a rally as an irritation to be got out of the way before the next service. The women's game is better because there is a lot more skilful play instead of macho ace-hitting, regardless of whether the players are attractive or not.
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Citizen Skeptic

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Re: Sexism in the Skeptic Movement?
« Reply #634 on: August 18, 2009, 10:56:34 AM »
Tennis has this crazy rule that the player serving has a free hit with the first shot, as if serving was not enough of an advantage in itself. The result is that the top men's game is just a penalty shoot-out, with both players trying to fire in aces all the time. They seem to regard a point that goes to a rally as an irritation to be got out of the way before the next service. The women's game is better because there is a lot more skilful play instead of macho ace-hitting, regardless of whether the players are attractive or not.

Yeap. It's a different game.
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Evil Eye

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Re: Sexism in the Skeptic Movement?
« Reply #635 on: August 18, 2009, 11:25:06 AM »
Just for the record.....

Even though I was a cop and a farmer....

I took ballet & gymnastics.

I also like heavy metal & country, and on occasion I even listen to Barry Manilow.

If I was a woman I'd be a lesbian. Which type? I can't answer.
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Ansalem

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Re: Sexism in the Skeptic Movement?
« Reply #636 on: August 18, 2009, 12:42:31 PM »
Just for the record.....

Even though I was a cop and a farmer....

I took ballet & gymnastics.

I also like heavy metal & country, and on occasion I even listen to Barry Manilow.

If I was a woman I'd be a lesbian. Which type? I can't answer.

The kind that I would be a lesbian for!
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Thunder

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Re: Sexism in the Skeptic Movement?
« Reply #637 on: August 18, 2009, 09:33:53 PM »
Please consider the damage done to the strength of the community and movement when unrelated secondary causes are dragged into this realm.  If such diversion continues, this movement will be as the Democratic Party in 2004- fractionalized, marginalized, and watching John Edwards ratings rise (yes,- double entendre and rhyme intentional).

Thank you for your consideration.

So what do people consider the pertinent primary causes that unite the "skeptical community"? What causes is a discussion of the (possible) presence of sexism within said community distracting people from?


I am certainly not campaigning to write the central message of the skeptical movement.  Assuming that there is such a movement, then it must have goals and direction. 

Sounding off about sexism at TAM is like carrying an assault rifle to the health care town halls:  no matter how right you think you are, it is not the time or place to fire off about unrelated, distracting, divisive issues. 
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Benx6444

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Re: Sexism in the Skeptic Movement?
« Reply #638 on: August 18, 2009, 09:46:58 PM »
Please consider the damage done to the strength of the community and movement when unrelated secondary causes are dragged into this realm.  If such diversion continues, this movement will be as the Democratic Party in 2004- fractionalized, marginalized, and watching John Edwards ratings rise (yes,- double entendre and rhyme intentional).

Thank you for your consideration.

So what do people consider the pertinent primary causes that unite the "skeptical community"? What causes is a discussion of the (possible) presence of sexism within said community distracting people from?


I am certainly not campaigning to write the central message of the skeptical movement.  Assuming that there is such a movement, then it must have goals and direction. 

Sounding off about sexism at TAM is like carrying an assault rifle to the health care town halls:  no matter how right you think you are, it is not the time or place to fire off about unrelated, distracting, divisive issues.

!!!!!!!

ADVISE THE COUNCIL! WE HAVE A HERETIC IN OUR MIDST! WE MUST PURGE THIS UNCLEAN INCIDIOUS ONE OF ALL INCIDIOUSNESS! TO ARMS MY SISTERS! INFORM THE INQUISITORIUM SORORITAS THAT I HAVE A DENOUNCEMENT TO MAKE!
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 09:50:45 PM by Benx6444 »
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Re: Sexism in the Skeptic Movement?
« Reply #639 on: August 22, 2009, 12:13:43 PM »
Obviously late to the party, but here's the 2 craziest quotes from the first 5 pages:
There is something to be said for tactics and meeting our goals. I keep hearing the goal of increasing skepticism. Tyson is potentially an inroad into an underrepresented segment of the community. The same could be argued with other potentially less famous skeptics from other minority groups, like Canadians.
and
Quote from: Karyn
Random rape and violence against women is a current rule of our society
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GiggiRock

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Re: Sexism in the Skeptic Movement?
« Reply #640 on: September 10, 2009, 01:46:25 PM »
Not sure if this has been pointed out yet, but isn't it Rebecca and Carrie's responsibility as skepchicks to bring more women into the skeptical movement, including TAM. If I was the head of an Arab skeptics group I wouldn't bitch at TAM, I would redouble my efforts to get more arabs involved.
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Re: Sexism in the Skeptic Movement?
« Reply #641 on: September 10, 2009, 03:18:14 PM »
Good response to the crazy
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Re: Sexism in the Skeptic Movement?
« Reply #642 on: September 10, 2009, 03:27:21 PM »
Obviously late to the party, but here's the 2 craziest quotes from the first 5 pages:
Quote from: Karyn
Random rape and violence against women is a current rule of our society

I think you completely misunderstand what I was saying.  Are you saying that rape and murder don't happen in the US?

Trinoc

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Re: Sexism in the Skeptic Movement?
« Reply #643 on: September 10, 2009, 06:17:15 PM »
Obviously late to the party, but here's the 2 craziest quotes from the first 5 pages:
Quote from: Karyn
Random rape and violence against women is a current rule of our society
I think you completely misunderstand what I was saying.  Are you saying that rape and murder don't happen in the US?

Please explain how you square "it happens" with "it is a current rule of our society".
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