Print

[saulecker]

Someone please tell me there is another reason for this or that this lady is faking it.  Now all my friends, who I thought were rational thinking people, are freaking out and saying that they aren't getting a flu shot.  I've tried to tell them that there is no reason for alarm, but this video is pretty scary.  Add to that that it is done by a credible news source and my argument seems less valid.  Can someone with dystonia really walk backwards fine?  Can they talk and be 100% normal while running then when they stop they turn into a quivering pile of human?

here are links to the videos:

Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT (10 days AFTER vaccination )	DQ

and the followup:

Flu Shot Disabled Beautiful Cheerleader	DQ

[FX]

The terrible truth is that a very very small number of people react badly to vaccines.

Some even die.  Pretending it doesn't happen is easy, until it happens to somebody well known.  Or in thi case, beautiful and vibrant.  Then it's harder to deny.

But we will find a way to make this not matter.  Think of all the lives vaccines save!  That some have to die or become crippled, it's a small price to pay for society.

[cerveauxfrits]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. . .  are we sure that the flu vaccine caused her dystonia, or just that she got a flu vaccine and later developed dystonia?

[saulecker]

I hate to admit it, but I'm not even convinced that this is real, much less caused by the flu shot!

[FX]

Of course!  Nobody ever gets a bad reaction to any vaccine.  Ever.  It is always just a coincidence.

[saulecker]

That's not what I meant... of course some people have adverse reactions to some vaccines!  I'm basically asking is THIS  possible.  It seems fishy.  It's TOO extreme!   

[cerveauxfrits]

Nobody's saying the flu vaccine never causes any iatrogenic conditions.  I just don't think we can infer anything from the information that's immediately available in the article.

[cerveauxfrits]

Here's a statement from the Dystonia Medical Research Foundation:

Recently there has been coverage in the news media about a woman developing dystonia after receiving a seasonal flu vaccine. The DMRF is not aware of any information or research showing that the seasonal flu vaccine causes dystonia.

(emphasis mine)

[FX]

Well, some good news.  Somebody already came up with a way it could have happened that doesn't involve the vaccine.

It's psychosomatic Dystonia!!

Isn't medicine wonderful?  A brand new disorder!

The more interesting issue, is that she came down with the flu after the vaccine.  While you can't get the flu from a dead virus vaccine, it is possible to get the flu after getting the vaccine.

It might be that getting the vaccine and the flu together could cause damage.  The vaccine isn't 100% effective (we know this), so what might happen if you get the vaccine, and while your body is trying to mount an immune response (it can take two weeks after the vaccine) you get the flu, and come down with it (maybe a different version as well), that the double immune response could trigger a problem.

Investigation would be prudent. 

[FX]

http://www.foxnews.com/search-results/m/26952743/flu-shot-fears.htm#q=vinocur

For those that don't watch videos, that is the source for the psychosomatic explanation.

It also includes the "even if a few people have reactions, go get vaccinated, it is for the public good".

[JoelWhy]

I've never heard anyone who is knowledgeable on the flu vaccine say it is either 100% safe or 100% effective.  Regardless of whether this particular woman suffered a serious side effect from the vaccine, side effects are possible.

From the CDC:

numerous studies have been done to evaluate if other influenza vaccines were associated with Guillain–Barré Syndrome. In most studies, no association was found, but two studies suggested that approximately 1 additional person out of 1 million vaccinated people may be at risk for GBS associated with the seasonal influenza vaccine.

For comparison, an estimated 750 per million adults are hospitalized with seasonal influenza each year; many of these cases could be prevented by vaccination. In addition, studies suggest that the risk of developing GBS after having influenza is higher than the potential risk of developing GBS after vaccination.

This cheerleader makes for a good news story.  What doesn't make for a good news story are the 1,000s who don't end up in the hospital each year because they got the vaccine and didn't get the flu or any serious side effects.

[FX]

I would note that many stories about this do include advice to get vaccinated.  That the chances are very small of a bad reaction, and the flu can kill you.

[cerveauxfrits]

To me, it's not a question of whether the flu vaccine comes with risks - it does.  I'm thinking of this story in particular, and the question of whether it's likely that this woman's dystonia was caused by the flu vaccine.  And as far as that goes, I think it's telling that an organization whose job is to know all about dystonia is saying "Huh, well it'd be the first we ever heard of anything like this happening."  Whatever caused her dystonia, it sounds like chances are that the relationship between her condition and the vaccine is coincidental rather than causational.

[JoelWhy]

I would note that many stories about this do include advice to get vaccinated.  That the chances are very small of a bad reaction, and the flu can kill you.

That's responsible journalism because it's entirely accurate (as opposed to the fear mongering of the first news report.)

[JoelWhy]

  Whatever caused her dystonia, it sounds like chances are that the relationship between her condition and the vaccine is coincidental rather than causational.

It's certainly possible -- and, this is precisely how the rumors of vaccines causing autism started.