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Author Topic: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?  (Read 2165 times)

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TalkingBook

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #120 on: November 12, 2009, 09:38:52 AM »
If anything, the story got even more complicated now that she can talk normal again.

So I take it you reject the psychogenic theory then? Because if it was indeed a psychogenic 'disorder', then her speedy recovery is not really that much of a mystery.

Consider Steve's example of dropping the hand of someone with psychogenic paralysis over their face and seeing it move to the side. If this occurs and you can actually convince the person that they're moving the hand, I can't imagine it would be a big leap to getting them to use it again.

Your continue to make comments to the effect of "Something just isn't right here." What do you actually believe is going on? Throw out an actual hypothesis.

I actually can't believe I keep getting drawn into this conversation, but I guess I'm just curious why you're clinging to this so much.
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FX

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #121 on: November 12, 2009, 09:48:45 AM »
As a skeptic, I don't rush to conclusions. 

Even so, every conclusion I see put forth to try and explain everything brings up yet another unsolved issue.

If it was all psychogenic (fever, vomiting, weakness in her legs, body aches, fatigue, passing out, convulsions, dystonia), that is amazing.  Really. 

No less amazing is that a doctor cured her, after she was pronounced incurable.


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rolla_costa

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #122 on: November 12, 2009, 10:02:56 AM »
As a skeptic, I don't rush to conclusions. 

Even so, every conclusion I see put forth to try and explain everything brings up yet another unsolved issue.

If it was all psychogenic (fever, vomiting, weakness in her legs, body aches, fatigue, passing out, convulsions, dystonia), that is amazing.  Really. 

No less amazing is that a doctor cured her, after she was pronounced incurable.





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Wakefield

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #123 on: November 12, 2009, 10:07:33 AM »
As a skeptic, I don't rush to conclusions. 

Even so, every conclusion I see put forth to try and explain everything brings up yet another unsolved issue.

If it was all psychogenic (fever, vomiting, weakness in her legs, body aches, fatigue, passing out, convulsions, dystonia), that is amazing.  Really. 

No less amazing is that a doctor cured her, after she was pronounced incurable.




WHO pronounced her incurable?

From what I can gather we have only her word that she was even diagnosed with anything, let alone pronounced "incurable."

Quote
fever, vomiting, weakness in her legs, body aches, fatigue
There's nothing amazing in all that. All of those symptoms can be manifested psychologically. As a kid I was so stressed about some of the religious schools I was sent to that in fourth grade I went on a tear of purely stress induced symptoms that looked for all the world like the flu. I know from personal experience that you can manifest all those symptoms from stress alone.

Quote
passing out
You never heard of hysterical fainting?

Quote
convulsions
I have a few friends who are epileptic. They can go for years without a seizure. Some didn't even suspect they had a medical issue until they had their first seizure. Stress is a trigger. Even then, the psychological issues described earlier in theis thread can easily explain the convulsions.

Quote
dystonia
We just had a long discussion in this thread about the fact that her symptoms didn't match dystonia.

There's nothing mysterious about this. We have a woman who was under so much stress that her body went haywire, causing a slew of motor problems. Quack remedies are providing her some relief, indicating that the placebo effect of the quack remedies is enough to calm her down and de-stress her to the point where she can being to recover.

Where's the mystery?
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rolla_costa

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #124 on: November 12, 2009, 10:17:37 AM »
As a skeptic, I don't rush to conclusions. 

Even so, every conclusion I see put forth to try and explain everything brings up yet another unsolved issue.

If it was all psychogenic (fever, vomiting, weakness in her legs, body aches, fatigue, passing out, convulsions, dystonia), that is amazing.  Really. 

No less amazing is that a doctor cured her, after she was pronounced incurable.




WHO pronounced her incurable?

From what I can gather we have only her word that she was even diagnosed with anything, let alone pronounced "incurable."

Quote
fever, vomiting, weakness in her legs, body aches, fatigue
There's nothing amazing in all that. All of those symptoms can be manifested psychologically. As a kid I was so stressed about some of the religious schools I was sent to that in fourth grade I went on a tear of purely stress induced symptoms that looked for all the world like the flu. I know from personal experience that you can manifest all those symptoms from stress alone.

Quote
passing out
You never heard of hysterical fainting?

Quote
convulsions
I have a few friends who are epileptic. They can go for years without a seizure. Some didn't even suspect they had a medical issue until they had their first seizure. Stress is a trigger. Even then, the psychological issues described earlier in theis thread can easily explain the convulsions.

Quote
dystonia
We just had a long discussion in this thread about the fact that her symptoms didn't match dystonia.

There's nothing mysterious about this. We have a woman who was under so much stress that her body went haywire, causing a slew of motor problems. Quack remedies are providing her some relief, indicating that the placebo effect of the quack remedies is enough to calm her down and de-stress her to the point where she can being to recover.

Where's the mystery?

I got a simpler explanation, everything but the convulsions and dystonia was caused by the flu or  a bad cold.  I AM NOT saying this is what happened, just a guess.
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FX

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #125 on: November 12, 2009, 11:44:06 PM »
WHO pronounced her incurable?

Her doctors at Johns Hopkins and Inova Fairfax. They also told her she suffered from an adverse reaction from the seasonal flu vaccine. After it was declared dystonia, the symptoms are considered irreversible.

A doctor also filed a VAERS report.

All of that was checked out by various news agencies. 
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FX

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #126 on: November 12, 2009, 11:49:06 PM »
 It seems, based on the ideas being thrown out here, that a few people think this is all coming from the patient.  And that nobody did any fact checking before they ran the story.

Quote
In this case, the FDA says they found nothing wrong with this particular batch, but sometimes there are complications.

http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/health/101309_woman_disabled_by_flu_shot_reaction_dystonia


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rolla_costa

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #127 on: November 12, 2009, 11:56:58 PM »
It seems, based on the ideas being thrown out here, that a few people think this is all coming from the patient.  And that nobody did any fact checking before they ran the story.

Quote
In this case, the FDA says they found nothing wrong with this particular batch, but sometimes there are complications.

http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/health/101309_woman_disabled_by_flu_shot_reaction_dystonia


I don't know about you, but i think that says that there wasn't anything wrong with this batch of vaccines.
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TalkingBook

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #128 on: November 13, 2009, 06:56:44 AM »
WHO pronounced her incurable?

Her doctors at Johns Hopkins and Inova Fairfax. They also told her she suffered from an adverse reaction from the seasonal flu vaccine. After it was declared dystonia, the symptoms are considered irreversible.

A doctor also filed a VAERS report.

All of that was checked out by various news agencies. 

FX, I understand your not wanting to just not just ignore her case outright, but...

Until the doctors who told her a) it was dystonia and b) she got it from the flu shot actually provide some sort of explanation, mechanism, or even theory about how this could happen, the entire thing is just a huge post hoc ergo propter hoc. I realize that we sometimes do come to a conclusion of causation without a mechanism, but not when there is only a very, very small number of examinable correlations.

Also, there are two further problems with saying the vaccine caused this, being a) there is quite a bit of controversy if the disease the woman had was actually dystonia (in my opinion all signs point to this NOT being the case at the moment), and b) she also caught the flu after receiving the shot, and thus the flu itself could, based on the same logic, just as easily be considered the cause of whatever disease it is she had.

The point being, yes, it is in theory POSSIBLE that this woman got dystonia from the flu shot, and then the disease (which as you said is considered incurable) was cured within a week or so by a doctor known to use very questionable treatments (why isn't he curing everybody's dystonia if this works?). But, there is absolutely no reason at present to consider this more likely than any alternative, including that she did or did not have dystonia, that it was caused by the flu shot, the flu itself, or a number of other factors, that it may or may not have been a psychogenic 'disorder', or a large number of other possibilities. In my opinion the fact that she has been 'cured' of a hitherto incurable disease in the time frame of a week puts the likelihood of that scenario very low of the scale of probability compared to other scenarios.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 06:59:02 AM by TalkingBook »
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FX

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #129 on: November 13, 2009, 10:54:21 AM »
The thing is, saying "it is dystonia" doesn't explain anything.  Same for "psychogenic" as a cause. 

As I said, nothing has been explained, unless you accept her current doctors explanations.

Which is what makes it so interesting.
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Wakefield

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #130 on: November 13, 2009, 10:57:47 AM »
The thing is, saying "it is dystonia" doesn't explain anything.  Same for "psychogenic" as a cause. 

As I said, nothing has been explained, unless you accept her current doctors explanations.

Which is what makes it so interesting.

Her current "Doctor" is a quack and her symptoms are nicely explained by a psychogenic disorder.
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MisterMan

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« Reply #131 on: November 18, 2009, 12:27:31 PM »
Saw this today on a fave website and I tracked down a link.  Yes it's sad, but those moves are undeniably killer. 

WOBBLE GIRL (TECHNO EDITION)DQ
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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #132 on: November 20, 2009, 03:02:16 PM »
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JoelWhy

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #133 on: November 20, 2009, 03:35:02 PM »
Update: Road to recovery.

 ::)


From the headline "Woman disabled by flu shot shows improvements".  Great journalism there, idiots.
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MisterMan

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #134 on: November 20, 2009, 04:07:13 PM »
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Actress Jenny McCarthy's Foundation called Generation Rescue, which educates people about ways to reverse autism and concerns over vaccine safety, put Desiree in touch with Dr. Rashid Buttar, who practices outside of Charlotte, North Carolina. He's a controversial physician who practices preventative medicine.

Nice....nice...

Also, wtf is "preventative medicine?"  Is that different from regular medicine? 
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