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http://health.usnews.com/blogs/on-parenting/2009/11/02/flu-fears-vaccine-fears-and-cheerleader-desiree-jenningss-story.html

a newspaper actually references steves blog.  amazing.

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http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1163

I would suggest to Steve that he stop saying "Desiree Jennings, the 25 year old woman who claims to have developed dystonia" on his blog.  She never claimed it was Dystonia. 

The reported story was, and is,
"doctors at Johns Hopkins diagnosed Jennings with dystonia, a rare neurological condition".

Changing it to "she diagnosed herself and is claiming" is a serious twist, and false.   While subtle, it is such a huge change in what actually happened, that it allows people to now argue and attack her, rather than a doctor at a hospital.

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http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1163

I would suggest to Steve that he stop saying "Desiree Jennings, the 25 year old woman who claims to have developed dystonia" on his blog.  She never claimed it was Dystonia. 

The reported story was, and is,
"doctors at Johns Hopkins diagnosed Jennings with dystonia, a rare neurological condition".

Changing it to "she diagnosed herself and is claiming" is a serious twist, and false.   While subtle, it is such a huge change in what actually happened, that it allows people to now argue and attack her, rather than a doctor at a hospital.

are you kidding?

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Looking at the VAERS database there are four other cases of dystonia reported, in regards to seasonal flu vaccines.
One for the flumist, in 2004.

And two others for the injection, in 1997 and 2008.  So this makes four reported events.  For dystonia, in relation to flu vaccines.

http://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html

You can see for yourself.  Evidence based medicine, it doesn't assume or presume what happens, it looks at what happens.

So no, I'm not kidding.
Unless the VEARS system is kidding, but I seriously doubt it is.

Now, if experience is any way to predict events, somebody will attack the VEARS reporting, and somehow try to avoid looking for the facts.

Because they already know the flu vaccine couldn't ever do anything we don't know about.  Because you know, everything is already known about every possible thing that can happen, so why bother to do any research?

Lets just tell anyone who tries to report something, it must be all in their head. 

OK I was kidding about that.  See the difference?

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I just perused the VAERS database.  I do not feel I have the medical expertise to evaluate the claims presented in it.   If you think you do, I wil lhave to take your word for it.     However, you have to be fairly new to the English language to think that novella meant that her condition is self diagnosed. 

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Looking at the VAERS database there are four other cases of dystonia reported, in regards to seasonal flu vaccines.
One for the flumist, in 2004.

And two others for the injection, in 1997 and 2008.  So this makes four reported events.  For dystonia, in relation to flu vaccines.

http://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html

You can see for yourself.  Evidence based medicine, it doesn't assume or presume what happens, it looks at what happens.

Again, the VAERS data base is only a repot of adverse events that have happened in the past.  It can only ever be retrospective and cannot ever do more than imply a correlation.  It is impossible for us to knpw any previous medical history of anyone in the database or any subsequent follow ups.

So no, I'm not kidding.
Unless the VEARS system is kidding, but I seriously doubt it is.

Now, if experience is any way to predict events, somebody will attack the VEARS reporting, and somehow try to avoid looking for the facts.

Because they already know the flu vaccine couldn't ever do anything we don't know about.  Because you know, everything is already known about every possible thing that can happen, so why bother to do any research?

That the database exists is proof that mainstream medicine is receptive to new information.  That information in there exists is proof that we have records.  If you can find it in VAERS, then it has been reported already and is part of medical knowledge, don't act all smug like you are the only person alive who figured out how to use an extremely user friendly government based website.

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Again, the VAERS data base is only a repot of adverse events that have happened in the past. 

I know what the VAERS database is.  That there has been four previous reports of dystonia is just one of those pesky facts.

I'm skeptical of a lot of things, including reports that "this has never happened before".   So when I find it has happened before, it makes me more skeptical of anyone who wants to tell me it didn't happen, that it can't happen, that she must be faking it.

I haven't talked to the doctors at Hopkins yet, but if they confirm that they diagnosed her, and reported it to VAERS, those are just more of those pesky facts.

[Beleth]

There's no reason to resort to personal attacks.

Yes there is.

Beleth

No, there isn't.

It's entirely possible to dismantle the other person's argument without resorting to insults.  I've seen you guys do it before.  You can do it here too.

[Kim Barron]

http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1163

I would suggest to Steve that he stop saying "Desiree Jennings, the 25 year old woman who claims to have developed dystonia" on his blog.  She never claimed it was Dystonia. 

The reported story was, and is,
"doctors at Johns Hopkins diagnosed Jennings with dystonia, a rare neurological condition".

Changing it to "she diagnosed herself and is claiming" is a serious twist, and false.   While subtle, it is such a huge change in what actually happened, that it allows people to now argue and attack her, rather than a doctor at a hospital.

I don't think Johns Hopkins has released the diagnosis.  We are taking her word for it that she was diagnosed with dystonia. 

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So someone dug up a report that may be the VAERS report filed on behalf of Ms.  Jennings.  Of course, it is anonymous and is probably illegal for anyone to come forth and say definitively that it is the report for her, but anyway, here is what it says. 

Sore throat, nasal congestions, followed by fever, body aches, chills, and headache.10/8/08 Medical records received, Dates of Service 10/2-10/3/09. Diagnosis: Weakness. Pt. experienced sore throat, congestion, body aches, chills, headache, fatigue and fever 3 days after receiving the influenza vaccine. The fatigue continued for almost 2 weeks during which the patient continued to work, but on 9/12/09 she presented to the ED with generalized weakness, lightheadedness and an episode of syncopy that was accompanied by generalized convulsions. Admitted to the hospital from 9/12-9/14/09. CK and LFT's were noted to be significantly elevated. Returned to work on 9/17/09 and continued to experience nausea and syncope with all over trembling and was readmitted to the hospital overnight. On 9/21 her PCP told her she had a positive ANA and lupus. Pt. began experiencing chest pain, for which steroids were prescribed. She saw an Infectious Disease MD on 9/22 and had a lumbar puncture which was normal. Pt. began experiencing difficulty walking, chills, sweats, tremors and vivid dreams with difficulty sleeping. She began having headaches described as a ""cold spot"" on the back of her head, had subsequently developed a stutter, but was able to speak clearly if she whispered. Her symptoms persisted and progressed to erratic movements of the toe, intermittent uncontrolled blinking, difficulty focusing, uncontrolled shaking, cold feet and sharp pains in the legs. Upon this admission the plan was to rule out GBS, MS, malignancy, Lyme and MG. Pt. noted to have dystonia, speech dysfunction, gait dysfunction, anxiety, SOB, photophobia, tinnitus in the left ear, and increase in appetite, a 2 lb. weight loss. It was also noted that the symptoms were worsened by warm water, especially at the knees. The admitting neurologist felt that there was a strong psychogenic component to the symptomology, and made a final diagnosis of weakness. 10/13/09 Medical records received from dates 10/2/09-10/4/09 Presented to for eval of p (REDACTED)"

(United States Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS), Public Health Service (PHS), Centers for Disease Control (CDC) / Food and Drug Administration (FDA), Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) 1990 - last week, CDC WONDER On-line Database Accessed at http://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html on Nov 4, 2009 10:20:23 AM)

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Dr. Leigh Vinocur is currently employed as an emergency medicine doctor from the University of Maryland Medical System offered an alternative cause to Ms. Jennings’ syndrome. Dr. Vinocur stated that there have been no cases of dystonia associated with the flu vaccine and that neurology experts at the University of Maryland were using Ms. Jennings’ case to teach neurology residents about psychogenic dystonia.

http://spotlight.vitals.com/2009/11/dr-leigh-vinocur-affirms-desiree-jennings-has-psychogenic/

"Dr. Vinocur stated that there have been no cases of dystonia associated with the flu vaccine"

Except the VAERS database shows there have been multiple reports of dystonia associated with the seasonal flu vaccines.  Which sort of makes her look like she doesn't know what she is talking about.

If it is psychogenic, then her ability to create symptoms is amazing. It might even be a first in medicine.  Beautiful healthy cheerleader manages to go from perfect health to complete disability, with the power of her mind alone.

Fascinating. 

[Joe B]

Are you seriously turning from bashing someone for supporting their opinion with the argument "it's never happened before", then turn around and support your argument with "it may have never even happened before." ?

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Pointing out that somebody is saying something that doesn't match up with the evidence, is not bashing them.

[Joe B]

Pointing out that somebody is saying something that doesn't match up with the evidence, is not bashing them.

Fair enough. Address the point now.

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When I say, "it might be", it means I don't know.  It would be pretty amazing. 

While some think getting all these terrible symptoms from a seasonal flu vaccine is unlikely, I think it's highly unlikely that somebody could create all those symptoms, with just their mind.

This doesn't deal with the other question, which is "why?".  Why would a vibrant young woman suddenly create, by the power of her mind alone, a vast array of horrific, expensive, and painful symptoms?