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Author Topic: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?  (Read 2164 times)

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JoelWhy

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #135 on: November 20, 2009, 04:47:31 PM »
I wrote this e-mail to the author of the article (I was in a big rush, so it's not as well-thought out or researched as I would have liked, but...)

Quote

Several weeks ago, Desiree Jennings caught the nation's attention with her heart wrenching story of becoming disabled, purportedly by a flu vaccine.  More specifically, as you indicated in the article published today "Desiree Jennings' Road to Recovery: Woman disabled by flu shot shows improvements", you reported that she suffered a "rare reaction to the flu shot that resulted in dystonia."

I wish to correct several grave errors in your article.  I do not mean any disrespect, but I believe this reporting has has far-reaching consequences.

First of all, dystonia is not a "rare reaction to the flu shot."  To the contrary, the medical literature shows ZERO cases of dystonia as a side effect of the flu shot.  Therefore, if she did contract dystonia, this would be a "unique" reaction, not a rare one.  This may seem like a trivial point, but I assure you it is a critical one.

You then indicate that "Dr. [Rashid] Buttar treated her in what many traditional doctors might call an untraditional way."  'Tradition' has nothing to do with it -- he treated her using a hyperbaric chamber; there is not a single peer-reviewed study that shows such "treatment" can alleviate symptoms such as dystonia.  Yet again, Ms. Jenning's recovery has been unique.

But, why take my word over Dr. Buttar's?  Well, this statement really says it all:

When asked if her diagnosis was a result of the flu shot, Dr. Buttar responded, "Absolutely. Without a doubt? Without a doubt."

What an outrageous claim!  You could smoke a carton of cigarettes a day for 50 years and be diagnosed with lung cancer -- even in such an extreme situation, no doctor could every say that the cigarettes caused the cancer 'without a doubt'.  Is it likely?  Yes.  But, an absolute cause and effect relationship would be next-to-impossible to determine.

Still, in my cigarette example, at least you would have mounds of scientific literature to support such a hypothesis.  Conversely, Dr. Buttar doesn't have any peer-reviewed literature to support his diagnosis or treatment.

I should also point out that neurologist after neurologist who have examined the video footage have found that her symptoms are not at all indicative of dystonia.  Admittedly, these doctors have not examined her in person, so such statements should be taken with a bit of skepticism.  But, given the remarkable claims being made, there is plenty of needed skepticism needed for this entire story.

I could go on, but I hope this gives you enough information to re-examine this case and seek out additional sources.  I truly hope you do not see this as a personal attack -- I have nothing but respect for journalists, and am confident that you did not intend to deceive your audience.  Still, given the importance of people getting vaccinate (and, if you are interested in the reams of scientific articles verifying the safety and efficacy of the H1N1 vaccine and/or the seasonal flu vaccine, I would be happy to point you in the right direction) I do hope you will consider running a correction.  I am not being hyperbolic when I say that lives are at stake here.
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FX

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #136 on: November 20, 2009, 04:54:53 PM »
I hate to rain on your parade with pesky facts, but there are 67 reported cases of dystonia in the VAERS records.

I know, don't you hate it when reality doesn't match your beliefs?
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Joe B

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #137 on: November 20, 2009, 05:05:03 PM »
I hate to rain on your parade with pesky facts, but there are 67 reported cases of dystonia in the VAERS records.

I know, don't you hate it when reality doesn't match your beliefs?

A case reporting the flu vaccine turned a patient into The Hulk was accepted to VAERS. Does that mean that we should call Hulkism a rare side effect of vaccination?

It's not legitimate medical literature that can establish any connection or causation.
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FX

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #138 on: November 20, 2009, 05:12:44 PM »
Keep telling yourself that.  Then it will be true.
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Joe B

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #139 on: November 20, 2009, 05:14:38 PM »
Keep telling yourself that.  Then it will be true.

Way to address the argument 
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FX

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #140 on: November 20, 2009, 05:23:32 PM »
 "The shooting was reported to 911 by witnesses"

So what?  People have used the 911 system to report not getting the food they ordered. 

"Gosh, you are right.  So 911 calls are meaningless"

Glad to help.

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Joe B

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #141 on: November 20, 2009, 05:33:26 PM »
"The shooting was reported to 911 by witnesses"

So what?  People have used the 911 system to report not getting the food they ordered. 

"Gosh, you are right.  So 911 calls are meaningless"

Glad to help.

Your analogy is off. You aren't just dealing with false reports, you also don't have causation established by the reports. It's not a surprise that some people developed dystonia within a short time period after getting vaccinated, just like it's not a surprise that some are hit by buses and fall of cliffs. You have to compare to the background rate to have even a shred of evidence that vaccines caused the effects.
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Joe Shmoe

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #142 on: November 20, 2009, 05:35:45 PM »
"The shooting was reported to 911 by witnesses"

So what?  People have used the 911 system to report not getting the food they ordered. 

"Gosh, you are right.  So 911 calls are meaningless"

Glad to help.


You got it.  VAERS is not peer-reviewed, nor is the information gathered by this system subject to verification.  The Dystonia Foundation says they've got no cases, why would they lie?
http://www.dystonia-foundation.org/pages/dystonia___flu_vaccine/569.php
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Hubbub

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #143 on: November 20, 2009, 06:32:40 PM »
I am greatly confused as to why there is still dissent on this subject...

Which of my premises are unsubstantiated:
1.  Jennings' dystonia diagnosis is only purported by her own account and is not confirmed by her attending physicians.
2.  Independent analysis of her movements by neurologists concur that they are not consistent with dystonia, but are consistent with psychogenic disorders
3.  A VAERS report has surfaced, which in all probability, is her report.  The report indicates that the attending neurologist believed the symptoms were psychogenic.
4.  Jennings' symptoms began to subside immediately after receiving a completely quackerrific treatment.  This does not make physiological sense with a neurological vaccine injury, but it is consistent with dystonia.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 06:35:27 PM by Hubbub »
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FX

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #144 on: November 20, 2009, 06:33:56 PM »
All of them are incorrect.
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Hubbub

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #145 on: November 20, 2009, 06:37:47 PM »
All of them are incorrect.

Cool.  One at a time then.  What am I getting wrong with this one?

1.  Jennings' dystonia diagnosis is only purported by her own account and is not confirmed by her attending physicians.
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JoelWhy

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #146 on: November 20, 2009, 07:06:31 PM »
I hate to rain on your parade with pesky facts, but there are 67 reported cases of dystonia in the VAERS records.

I know, don't you hate it when reality doesn't match your beliefs?

There have been thousands (millions?) of reports of alien abduction.  Case closed, it's a real phenomenon!

Haven't you heard the old expression "The plural of anecdote is not evidence"?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 11:28:36 PM by JoelWhy »
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FX

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« Reply #147 on: November 20, 2009, 09:33:10 PM »
formatting problem
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 09:36:52 PM by FX »
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illusionincarnate

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #148 on: November 20, 2009, 09:42:10 PM »
Historical Quotations!

"Dr. McFarland was "unwise to make the statements [that linked Mulford vaccines to tetanus], in view of the fact that the entire country is threatened with an epidemic of smallpox."  He must "overcome the tendency on the part of any physician or customer to believe that the vaccine is in any way responsible for the recent surge in tetanus... every drop of our vaccine is tested and is free of germs of any kind.  The highest medical authorities are unanimous in the statement that when tetanus occurs after a vaccination it is always due to the ignorance and neglect of the patient."  Mulford Pharmaceuticals, 19th century vaccine supplier.


"pay no attention to the purported links between tetanus and vaccination.  Agitation can only injure the cause of vaccination... our newspapers are considered and sensible enough to suppress any reference to vaccination related ailments.  Drop the matter.  It is dead here."  - 19th century Cincinnati Physician, responding to an inquiry by the pharmaceuticals regarding a wealthy patient stricken with fatal tetanus after vaccination.

"What difference does it make to the victim of this horrific disease whether the lockjaw germ was in the virus itself or on the victim's body?  To absolve vaccination in either caase would be tantamount to freeing the assassins of Presidents Garfield and McKinley from the charge of murder because, forsooth, the fatal septic infection which killed these victims was not on the murderous bullets when they were fired into their bodies but entered wounds afterward through their own "carelessness" - early 20th century vaccine critic.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 09:48:25 PM by illusionincarnate »
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JoelWhy

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Re: Woman Disabled by THIS YEARS FLU SHOT?
« Reply #149 on: November 20, 2009, 11:30:01 PM »
You're good at attacking the low-hanging fruit, Illusion, but you ignore every substantive post made.  I just provided you with 4 studies (after you had implied there was only 1, and it was paid for by the evil Big Pharma.)  I'm assuming you've now come on board to the side of rational thought, right... ::)
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