Topic: Episode #258

[Kwisatz Haderach]

I'll pick the ones not prophylactically treated with antibiotics, not bred to grow so fast they are crippled in their miserable crowded 38 day lives but those allowed to wander about with others of their own species, eating grass and insects, giving flavour, texture and increased nutrient value.

Eat your damn battery farmed animals.

How Would you respond to a commentary like this:

Skeptoid: Free Range Chicken & Farm Raised Fish

I fortunately do not live in the USA.  Free range here is free range.  Not pretend free range.  I am a farmer and have the odd clue about produce.  I don't need skeptoid to inform me of anything agricultural.  I have far better sources.

Where is "here", and what is "free range" there?

I just checked the European Union regulations for free range chickens, and they are the same as the US.

[Moloch]

I'll pick the ones not prophylactically treated with antibiotics, not bred to grow so fast they are crippled in their miserable crowded 38 day lives but those allowed to wander about with others of their own species, eating grass and insects, giving flavour, texture and increased nutrient value.

Eat your damn battery farmed animals.

How Would you respond to a commentary like this:

Skeptoid: Free Range Chicken & Farm Raised Fish

I fortunately do not live in the USA.  Free range here is free range.  Not pretend free range.  I am a farmer and have the odd clue about produce.  I don't need skeptoid to inform me of anything agricultural.  I have far better sources.

Where is "here", and what is "free range" there?

I just checked the European Union regulations for free range chickens, and they are the same as the US.

"here" for Kem is New Zealand. NZ have better free range laws as does Australia. There are those however who are pushing for changes that will make things "less" free range.

Different states in Aus have different legislation. This one is from the" egg labeling and selling act" (Australian Capital Territory: 2001)

Hens are kept—
(a) with continuous daytime access to outdoor runs; and
(b) with access at all times to indoor litter, perches and nests; and
(c) with adequate protection at all times from predators and the elements; and
(d) in accordance with the stocking level and other requirements for range systems under the code.

Other states like Victoria are far more lapse.

There is an Australia wide "model code of practice", but this is a voluntary standard and not law.

Under the Model Code of Practice, poultry can only be said to be “free range” if certain requirements are met in relation to various criteria and concerns covering:
Flooring
Perches
Nests
Condition of the outdoor site
Land contamination with poisonous plants, chemicals or organisms which carry disease
Access to outdoor areas
Access to shade, shelter and windbreaks
Protection from predators
Stocking density
Lighting
Ventilation
Temperature and humidity
Availability of food and water
Regular inspection of poultry
Health and distress of poultry
Slaughter methods (in relation to meat chicken)

[Kwisatz Haderach]

So in other words, the regulations are pretty much the same as in the US and the EU.

[Moloch]

So in other words, the regulations are pretty much the same as in the US and the EU.

Brian's skeptoid episode on this subject was one of his worst (the bill of rights being the worst).

The entire segment on "does it make chickens happier" is a single anecdote...

he says "There are no requirements which must be met by producers who sell eggs as free range". Most states of Australia do have enforced standards. That's pretty much all he says about regulation in the US and based on that, no it's not the same as Australia.

His only cited reference to free range regulation in the USDA website which states

"FREE RANGE or FREE ROAMING:
Producers must demonstrate to the Agency that the poultry has been allowed access to the outside."

Again, different to Australia.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

So in other words, the regulations are pretty much the same as in the US and the EU.

Brian's skeptoid episode on this subject was one of his worst (the bill of rights being the worst).

The entire segment on "does it make chickens happier" is a single anecdote...

he says "There are no requirements which must be met by producers who sell eggs as free range". Most states of Australia do have enforced standards. That's pretty much all he says about regulation in the US and based on that, no it's not the same as Australia.

His only cited reference to free range regulation in the USDA website which states

"FREE RANGE or FREE ROAMING:
Producers must demonstrate to the Agency that the poultry has been allowed access to the outside."

Again, different to Australia.

Yes, Australia apparently requires "access to outdoor door runs."  Big difference.

Of course, this argument is something of a red herring, given that there is no difference in the flavor, and no positive difference nutritionally, between free range poultry and properly farmed poultry.

[Moloch]

So in other words, the regulations are pretty much the same as in the US and the EU.

Brian's skeptoid episode on this subject was one of his worst (the bill of rights being the worst).

The entire segment on "does it make chickens happier" is a single anecdote...

he says "There are no requirements which must be met by producers who sell eggs as free range". Most states of Australia do have enforced standards. That's pretty much all he says about regulation in the US and based on that, no it's not the same as Australia.

His only cited reference to free range regulation in the USDA website which states

"FREE RANGE or FREE ROAMING:
Producers must demonstrate to the Agency that the poultry has been allowed access to the outside."

Again, different to Australia.

Yes, Australia apparently requires "access to outdoor door runs."  Big difference.

Of course, this argument is something of a red herring, given that there is no difference in the flavor, and no positive difference nutritionally, between free range poultry and properly farmed poultry.

While I agree taste isn't different it's only a red herring if taste is the variable you're concerned with.

The conditions legally required in QLD and the ACT go well beyond "requiring outdoor runs" and the minimum standard while voluntary is adhered to by many farmers.

[kem]

Well, the taste difference is in the breeds.  In NZ fast growing breeds of chicken are not free ranging birds, they aren't physically up to scratch, as they say, to foraging or even goin outside for the day.  Traditional breeds are and the meat from those birds is darker and firmer, less fatty and to my (and  most) discernably different and, of cursse this is subjective, better. 

The same differences in texture and taste are not disputed for cattle, pigs, deer, turkey and fish.  Why not chooks as well.

Farmers have been heavily fined in NZ for selling eggs here as free range when, in fact, they were not.