Author Topic: Episode #262  (Read 3729 times)

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Offline Dr M

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Re: Episode #262
« Reply #30 on: Jul 25, 2010, 09:59:14 AM »
Presumably the electron's magnetic field must project some distance into space in order for it to react with an externally-applied field (Electron Spin Resonance etc.) ... so I would have expected some of the field to go out to infinity, just like any other magnet, although this field diminishes by an inverse cube law and so gets very small very quickly.

You're confusing the extent of the field with the direction of the field lines.  For a magnetic dipole field (such as that of a bar magnet) there will be field lines arbitrarily far away (i.e. the field exists arbitrarily far away, though its strength goes down).  However, you can't follow any given field line from the magnet to infinity.  As long as you stay on the same field line, you will end up going back to the magnet.

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Then I thought about this ... the inverse cube law calculation contains the distance between the poles as a parameter. If the electron is a point particle then the distance between then poles is zero, which means no external magnetic field ... so how does it work? I suspect quantum weirdness again.

By distance between the poles, do you mean the distance between the charges making up the electric dipole?  I'm trying to understand what your problem is here.

Offline DoctorAtlantis

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Re: Episode #262
« Reply #31 on: Jul 25, 2010, 10:49:36 AM »
There is a geological structure somewhere in the US Southwest named after breasts in Spanish or something.

Dollywood?

Or were you thinking the Grand Tetons?

Offline Anders

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Re: Episode #262
« Reply #32 on: Jul 25, 2010, 11:50:45 AM »
Twin Peaks?
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Offline Trinoc

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Re: Episode #262
« Reply #33 on: Jul 25, 2010, 01:17:47 PM »
Presumably the electron's magnetic field must project some distance into space in order for it to react with an externally-applied field (Electron Spin Resonance etc.) ... so I would have expected some of the field to go out to infinity, just like any other magnet, although this field diminishes by an inverse cube law and so gets very small very quickly.
You're confusing the extent of the field with the direction of the field lines.  For a magnetic dipole field (such as that of a bar magnet) there will be field lines arbitrarily far away (i.e. the field exists arbitrarily far away, though its strength goes down).  However, you can't follow any given field line from the magnet to infinity.  As long as you stay on the same field line, you will end up going back to the magnet.

What about the field line that continues the straight line between the two poles? Imagining a universe with no other magnetic fields to confuse the issue, of course.

Quote
Quote
Then I thought about this ... the inverse cube law calculation contains the distance between the poles as a parameter. If the electron is a point particle then the distance between then poles is zero, which means no external magnetic field ... so how does it work? I suspect quantum weirdness again.
By distance between the poles, do you mean the distance between the charges making up the electric dipole?  I'm trying to understand what your problem is here.

No I mean the distance between the poles of a bar magnet (or equivalent). If you calculate the field at a distance from a magnet which is significantly greater than the distance between the poles then it tends towards being inversely proportional to the cube of the distance and linearly proportional to the distance between the poles (tending towards proportional to 2d/x3, if I've done the calculation right, where d is the distance between the poles and x is the distance away from the centre). Obviously, if d=0 (how could it be anything else for a point particle) then it appears the magnetic field has to be zero everywhere. To look at it more simply, if both poles are in the same place then at every point in space the fields from the two poles cancel out.

But of course this is a classical physics argument. In classical physics a point particle can't have spin and we know an electron has quantum spin, so presumably it has some sort of quantum magnetic field as well.

Quantum weirdness gives me a headache ...
Do people who say "First World Problems" really think the only concern of people in developing countries is where the next bowl of rice is coming from?

Offline DoctorAtlantis

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Re: Episode #262
« Reply #34 on: Jul 25, 2010, 01:19:25 PM »
"Porker?" - ahahahaha, awesome Bob!

Yeah, and if you got near that star you'd be Bakin'.

Offline Trinoc

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Re: Episode #262
« Reply #35 on: Jul 25, 2010, 01:20:42 PM »
There is a geological structure somewhere in the US Southwest named after breasts in Spanish or something.
Dollywood?

Or were you thinking the Grand Tetons?

Geological structures with boob-fixated names are common. There are two matching, appropriately-shaped mountains in Scotland called the Paps of Jura.
Do people who say "First World Problems" really think the only concern of people in developing countries is where the next bowl of rice is coming from?

Offline Anders

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Re: Episode #262
« Reply #36 on: Jul 25, 2010, 01:25:37 PM »
But of course this is a classical physics argument. In classical physics a point particle can't have spin and we know an electron has quantum spin, so presumably it has some sort of quantum magnetic field as well.

Quantum weirdness gives me a headache ...


It has a magnetic moment but what that means isbeyond my skills. Unless it's that moment when you look at a hot chick and is unable to turn away.
“You couldn't be here if stars hadn't exploded... So forget Jesus. The stars died so that you could be here today.”

Lawrence Krauss

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"I tawt I taw a Balwog! I did! I did tee a Balwog!"

Offline Trinoc

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Re: Episode #262
« Reply #37 on: Jul 25, 2010, 01:54:42 PM »
It has a magnetic moment but what that means isbeyond my skills. Unless it's that moment when you look at a hot chick and is unable to turn away.

Every couple has its moment in a field ...
Do people who say "First World Problems" really think the only concern of people in developing countries is where the next bowl of rice is coming from?

Offline jtetetng

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Re: Episode #262
« Reply #38 on: Jul 25, 2010, 05:03:56 PM »
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« Last Edit: Nov 26, 2010, 09:06:53 AM by jtetetng »

Offline MountainManPan

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Re: Episode #262
« Reply #39 on: Jul 25, 2010, 05:06:32 PM »
I know this isn't about skepticism but the section of the show that made me cringe was when they were talking about desktop computing and gaming.  Just about everything they said was either wrong or exaggerated, but other than great show  :)

For example?

Online Citizen Skeptic

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Re: Episode #262
« Reply #40 on: Jul 25, 2010, 05:24:41 PM »
I know this isn't about skepticism but the section of the show that made me cringe was when they were talking about desktop computing and gaming.  Just about everything they said was either wrong or exaggerated, but other than that great show as always  :)


With regards to processor performance, graphics chips have been the driver, not mainstream intel chips. With regards to scaling, dram has led transistor shrinkage. That is probably going to continue until the end of moore's law. At least in my somewhat educated and possibly, but not likely, wrong opinion.
 


EDIT: Added image.



« Last Edit: Jul 25, 2010, 05:33:49 PM by Citizen Skeptic »

Offline wallet55

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Re: Episode #262
« Reply #41 on: Jul 25, 2010, 07:17:23 PM »
There is a geological structure somewhere in the US Southwest named after breasts in Spanish or something.

The Grand Tetons?
Humankind cannot stand very much reality.   T. S. Eliot

Offline Chew

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Re: Episode #262
« Reply #42 on: Jul 25, 2010, 07:22:47 PM »
There is a geological structure somewhere in the US Southwest named after breasts in Spanish or something.

They are called the "Spanish Peaks". Local Native Americans call them "Breasts of the Earth".
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Online David E.

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Re: Episode #262
« Reply #43 on: Jul 25, 2010, 10:21:35 PM »
That Popoff stor made me loathe the man and his filthy wife all over again.
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Offline jtetetng

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Re: Episode #262
« Reply #44 on: Jul 26, 2010, 12:30:28 AM »
[...........................................]
« Last Edit: Nov 26, 2010, 09:06:37 AM by jtetetng »