Author Topic: Episode #265  (Read 5599 times)

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Offline werecow

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Re: Episode #265
« Reply #15 on: Aug 14, 2010, 05:36:16 PM »
Awwww, happy birthday Jay.

I love the simulated evolution stuff. I was working on something myself, but I wanna quit and start over now that I hear what these guys are doing...  :-\

If anyone hasn't seen Karl Sims' work... it's amazing:

Yes! Sims' work is probably what got me to start studying AI. When I finish my thesis I'm going to be on the lookout for a PhD position involving genetic algorithms and/or artificial life. It's awesome.
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Offline synsei

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Re: Episode #265
« Reply #16 on: Aug 14, 2010, 05:47:31 PM »
If anyone hasn't seen Karl Sims' work... it's amazing:

http://www.archive.org/download/sims_evolved_virtual_creatures_1994/sims_evolved_virtual_creatures_1994_512kb.mp4

ETA: trouble auto-parsing the URL...

Thank you for posting this video. Not only it's damn iteresting but the creatures can be funny.

Offline werecow

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Re: Episode #265
« Reply #17 on: Aug 14, 2010, 05:53:57 PM »
Here's a similar project that you can run yourself:

http://www.stellaralchemy.com/lee/vce3d_download.php

And for those interested, you can find a few publications about Sims' work on his webpage: http://www.karlsims.com/evolved-virtual-creatures.html
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Offline Trinoc

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Re: Episode #265
« Reply #18 on: Aug 14, 2010, 05:54:17 PM »
"I quickly rubbished." by Reese. Quote of the Week!

Sounded fine for UK vernacular. Is "rubbish" not used as a verb in the US?

(BTW, it's Rhys ... Welsh spelling.)
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Offline Chew

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Re: Episode #265
« Reply #19 on: Aug 14, 2010, 06:03:05 PM »
"I quickly rubbished." by Reese. Quote of the Week!

Sounded fine for UK vernacular. Is "rubbish" not used as a verb in the US?

(BTW, it's Rhys ... Welsh spelling.)

Nope. But then we use "trashed", so I guess our language gap isn't that big.
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Offline Trinoc

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Re: Episode #265
« Reply #20 on: Aug 14, 2010, 06:14:32 PM »
"I quickly rubbished." by Reese. Quote of the Week!
Sounded fine for UK vernacular. Is "rubbish" not used as a verb in the US?

(BTW, it's Rhys ... Welsh spelling.)
Nope. But then we use "trashed", so I guess our language gap isn't that big.

We use that a fair bit as well, but it's not quite the same. I might trash a hotel room, but I might rubbish the quality of the room service.
Do people who say "First World Problems" really think the only concern of people in developing countries is where the next bowl of rice is coming from?

Online seaotter

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Re: Episode #265
« Reply #21 on: Aug 14, 2010, 06:24:50 PM »
WTN Catfish
"There is no use trying," said Alice; "one can't believe impossible things." Lewis Carroll

Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #265
« Reply #22 on: Aug 14, 2010, 06:39:29 PM »
Regarding the interview with Aubrey de Grey.  Recently I read Jonathan Weiner's book (published 2010) "Long for this World:  the Strange Science of Immortality", which consists largely of an extended interview over many years with Aubrey de Grey.

I can't really recommend it (Weiner's book "the Beak of the Finch" was much better from a science accuracy point of view).  It's good in parts though.

I suspect the main reason why we age is because our mitochondria accumulate mutations in the 63 mitochondrial genes still present in the mitochondria, so eventually the mitochondria stop working and the cell dies.  The damage results from free radicals produced during oxidative metabolism, and the only way of avoiding it is not to use the mitochondria at all (germ cells and stem cells apparently largely do this, which is why they are immortal). 

This was discussed in Nick Lane's book "Power, Sex, Suicide:  Mitochondria and the Meaning of Life".

de Grey's "solution" to this problem; transferring the remainder of the mitochondrial genes to the nucleus, even if feasible, wouldn't actually work; the genetic code in mitochondria is subtly different to that of the cell it is contained within. 

Even if it were possible to engineer a perfect complement of mitochondrial genes to be present in the cellular nucleus, it begs the question as to why it hadn't previously occurred anyway, why the mitochondria still need to retain some very small fraction of its genes. 

Nick Lane surmises that it allows the cell nucleus to produce just the right amount of mitochondrial protein for all the mitochondria present.  If the mitochondria produce 13 of its oxidative enzyme complex components in the "right" amount, then it only needs to "grab" the remainder from the cytoplasm, which would be under negative feedback.  Having a mitochondrion signal the nucleus that it "needs" (a positive feedback loop) more mitochondrial protein runs the risk that it will be swamped by all the other "sated" mitochondria in the cell.

Offline Evil Eye

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Re: Episode #265
« Reply #23 on: Aug 14, 2010, 06:53:40 PM »
My guess, just for the hell of it is a caterpillar.
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Offline werecow

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Re: Episode #265
« Reply #24 on: Aug 14, 2010, 06:57:17 PM »
This was discussed in Nick Lane's book "Power, Sex, Suicide:  Mitochondria and the Meaning of Life".

...


Nick Lane surmises that it allows the cell nucleus to produce just the right amount of mitochondrial protein for all the mitochondria present.  If the mitochondria produce 13 of its oxidative enzyme complex components in the "right" amount, then it only needs to "grab" the remainder from the cytoplasm, which would be under negative feedback.  Having a mitochondrion signal the nucleus that it "needs" (a positive feedback loop) more mitochondrial protein runs the risk that it will be swamped by all the other "sated" mitochondria in the cell.

I have that book on my shelf. Haven't read it yet, but his book Oxygen was very interesting, and he explains pretty much the same hypothesis there. I'd certainly recommend that book; he goes through the role of oxygen on ancient paleoclimates and deep time paleontology (including a skeptical look at the supposed "oxygen holocaust"), the two-faced effects of antioxidants, and the free-radical theory of aging, an oxygen-related theory of the evolution of sex, as well as many other interesting facts about oxygen and biology. One of the cooler popular science books I've read, but also one of the more challenging. I think I might have recommended him on the interview recommendation thread, but if not, I'll do so here. I think it would be quite interesting to hear him on the show.
« Last Edit: Aug 14, 2010, 07:00:49 PM by werecow »
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Offline Hanes

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Re: Episode #265
« Reply #25 on: Aug 14, 2010, 07:04:03 PM »
"Oh not 't all!"  SQUEEEEE!!! Love the british kid! :D

Offline mwilley

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Re: Episode #265
« Reply #26 on: Aug 14, 2010, 07:53:08 PM »
Rhys at fifteen was so cool. I wish I had his mindset at thirty years old, when I spent hundreds on Chiropractic treatment for chronic back pain.  Embarrasing now, especially after the last few 5x5s and Simon Singh. 
But Rhys, what a guy!  To be a sufferer of a chronic condition, and to be able to resist the temptation to beleive, well that's some rational detachment.  An inspiring young skeptic, thanks for having him on the show. Rhys's blog entitled bleachgate  ;D, btw, is great to read:
http://thewelshboyo.wordpress.com/2010/08/10/bleachgate/

wtn: A bird of Paradise makes similar weird noises. So that's my guess.
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Offline GodSlayer

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Re: Episode #265
« Reply #27 on: Aug 15, 2010, 01:54:25 AM »
I might trash a hotel room, but I might rubbish the quality of the room service.

'tis the same in NZ.
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Offline Skeptic Flyer

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Re: Episode #265
« Reply #28 on: Aug 15, 2010, 04:14:18 AM »
Did anyone else just crack up at 27.38 where Steve says.
"And you didn't think that was a good idea, to take industrial strength bleach."
So calm and straight faced.

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Offline synsei

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Re: Episode #265
« Reply #29 on: Aug 15, 2010, 04:43:17 AM »
Champagne :
I recently heard a 50 minutes podcast about the science of Champagne with Gérard Liger Belair, the same physicist who led that study. He mentionned an urban legend about putting a spoon in the bottleneck to keep the bubbles in the wine. I've seen people doing that, quite certain it worked. Of course it doesn't, he precised it had no reason to.

Bermuda :
Scientists explain Bermuda Triangle sounds a bit like "Scientists explain how Santa can deliver billions of presents worlwide in one night". I heard about these methane bubbles by a journalist who ignored to question the premise of actual ships and planes disappearing mysteriously. However they talked about the possible effects of this oceanic methane on global warming, and oceanic warming causing more of these bubbles.