Topic: The Cycling Thread

[Alex Simmons]

Wouldn't a heart rate monitor do the same thing? I know it doesn't show how much force you are putting on the pedals but a HRM would give you a good idea on how much effort you are giving.

The one utility of a HRM is as an indicator of sub-maximal aerobic effort, but that's about it.  When used in that manner, it's a handy tool but that is the extent of its utility.  It does not enable all of the other things a power meter does.

For example, HR is not a measure of fitness (and hence one can't use it to track changes in / measure progress with fitness).  What power you can sustain for durations of interest is.

One must recognise that HR has limitations as an indicator of intensity, namely:
- it is affected by many things other than how hard you are pedaling (hydration, drugs e.g. caffeine, fatigue, glycogen state, stress level etc)
- there is a daily variability in HR response at same level of effort/power
- HR responds quite slowly to actual effort, to the extent that it is useless as a guide to shorter harder efforts of less than 10-minutes
- it's utility is pretty limited when the effort level is highly variable (which is often quite common in cycling events)
- one must recognise the impact of cardiac drift - the tendency of HR to drift higher even though actual power has not - or as happens with those that use HR to guide pacing, remaining at the same HR will see power gradually dropping.  Does that matter? from the perspective of good pacing and time trial optimisation, yes it does.

[WC]

47 miles of this shit today;

(click to show/hide)

...LAKE WIND ADVISORY REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 7 PM EST THIS EVENING...
* TIMING...FROM 10 AM TO 7 PM TODAY WINDS WILL BE FROM THE NORTHWEST AT 15 TO 25 MPH AND GUSTY.
* WINDS...NORTHWEST AT 15 TO 25 MPH WITH GUSTS UP TO 30 MPH.

Guh. How is it possible to have a headwind regardless the direction I pedal?. And the gusts, the fucking gusts that pounced my flanks and took me down. 

[GodSlayer]

Guh. How is it possible to have a headwind regardless the direction I pedal?.

hah. that always seems to be the way.

[xenu]

Wouldn't a heart rate monitor do the same thing? I know it doesn't show how much force you are putting on the pedals but a HRM would give you a good idea on how much effort you are giving.

The one utility of a HRM is as an indicator of sub-maximal aerobic effort, but that's about it.  When used in that manner, it's a handy tool but that is the extent of its utility.  It does not enable all of the other things a power meter does.

For example, HR is not a measure of fitness (and hence one can't use it to track changes in / measure progress with fitness).  What power you can sustain for durations of interest is.

One must recognise that HR has limitations as an indicator of intensity, namely:
- it is affected by many things other than how hard you are pedaling (hydration, drugs e.g. caffeine, fatigue, glycogen state, stress level etc)
- there is a daily variability in HR response at same level of effort/power
- HR responds quite slowly to actual effort, to the extent that it is useless as a guide to shorter harder efforts of less than 10-minutes
- it's utility is pretty limited when the effort level is highly variable (which is often quite common in cycling events)
- one must recognise the impact of cardiac drift - the tendency of HR to drift higher even though actual power has not - or as happens with those that use HR to guide pacing, remaining at the same HR will see power gradually dropping.  Does that matter? from the perspective of good pacing and time trial optimisation, yes it does.

I think understand what you are saying. It is more of an out put monitor of how much you are "outputting".  Like horse power compared to RPM? You can use it to compare yourself to other cyclists, but a HRM would be something that you can use to see how much effort your body is giving.
I know what you are talking about with your heart rate lagging behind. I will climb a small hill and my HR will not go up much but after a couple of minutes it will start shooting up as my heart try's to supply enough O2 to  my body. It will stay there even when I am done with the climb for a bit.

[jaypee]

47 miles of this shit today;

(click to show/hide)

...LAKE WIND ADVISORY REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 7 PM EST THIS EVENING...
* TIMING...FROM 10 AM TO 7 PM TODAY WINDS WILL BE FROM THE NORTHWEST AT 15 TO 25 MPH AND GUSTY.
* WINDS...NORTHWEST AT 15 TO 25 MPH WITH GUSTS UP TO 30 MPH.

Guh. How is it possible to have a headwind regardless the direction I pedal?. And the gusts, the fucking gusts that pounced my flanks and took me down.

Because you don't remember when you have that nice tail wind pushing you an extra 1-2mph, you only notice when you have a headwind slowing you down 1-2mph while making it feel like you're pushing hard enough to be doing 25mph.

[WC]

47 miles of this shit today;

(click to show/hide)

...LAKE WIND ADVISORY REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 7 PM EST THIS EVENING...
* TIMING...FROM 10 AM TO 7 PM TODAY WINDS WILL BE FROM THE NORTHWEST AT 15 TO 25 MPH AND GUSTY.
* WINDS...NORTHWEST AT 15 TO 25 MPH WITH GUSTS UP TO 30 MPH.

Guh. How is it possible to have a headwind regardless the direction I pedal?. And the gusts, the fucking gusts that pounced my flanks and took me down.

Because you don't remember when you have that nice tail wind pushing you an extra 1-2mph, you only notice when you have a headwind slowing you down 1-2mph while making it feel like you're pushing hard enough to be doing 25mph.

Some days, you head into town in the morning, and the wind is in your face, and by the afternoon/evening commute home, it has shifted round the other way. I live on a skinny peninsula; the Gulf and the bay, oy, the winds, THE WINDS... You can't explain that.

But yes, confirmation bias I am subject to, often the mind weakens.

Somedays the winds from the bodies of water/shores seem to be at my back throughout the day. Those are blessed and random days. Yesterday, the gusts came from every which way, all at once, or unexpectedly out of nowhere. Had to keep a sharp eye on how debris was flying around me, and still I got knocked over twice. No harm done, but nerves jangled. It was like being in a gale or the outskirts of a hurricane. All winds all at once from every direction.

[pandamonium]

I decided to ride halfway home from work last night. Ow.

[Anders]

I decided to ride halfway home from work last night. Ow.

Lot of horses in SF?

[pandamonium]

I decided to ride halfway home from work last night. Ow.

Lot of horses in SF?

D: D: D:

[GodSlayer]

Some days, you head into town in the morning, and the wind is in your face

have they invented anything to keep the hissing of the wind out of your ears?

I've thought about trying those neckband headphones, not for music, but just because it looks like the design might shield the ear.

[khendar]

Some days, you head into town in the morning, and the wind is in your face

have they invented anything to keep the hissing of the wind out of your ears?

I've thought about trying those neckband headphones, not for music, but just because it looks like the design might shield the ear.

Earplugs ? Thought that'll reduce your situational awareness...

[xenu]

I know it is bad but I wear in the ear ear buds to listen to music. I know I know it's bad but I am on side streets or in the forest preserve and I don't have them on loud enough to block the outside noise. It cuts down on wind noise.

[Alex Simmons]

I think understand what you are saying. It is more of an out put monitor of how much you are "outputting".  Like horse power compared to RPM? You can use it to compare yourself to other cyclists, but a HRM would be something that you can use to see how much effort your body is giving.

Well power is the best measure of intensity (or more accurately, power relative to your own capability, such as threshold power, or maximal aerobic power).   It's a measure of what we can actually do. 

HR has many limitations in that regard (e.g. HR has a max that can be induced despite a rider being no where near their maximal power output).  I can make my HR jump 20 beats/min simply by visualising a race scenario while sitting on the couch, yet I am not actually doing anything.


RPM is only one component of power, one can spin fast and not produce much power.  The speed of movement has to also be accompanied by force for there to be power. Likewise you can apply a high force (or torque) but if nothing is moving, then no work is done and power is zero.

Power = rotational velocity x torque.

As for comparing to other cyclists, in a general sense yes (e.g. we can compare the power to weight ratio of cyclists, which will give a very good idea of what level of cyclist they are likely to be), but end of the day we have races for that.

I know what you are talking about with your heart rate lagging behind. I will climb a small hill and my HR will not go up much but after a couple of minutes it will start shooting up as my heart try's to supply enough O2 to  my body. It will stay there even when I am done with the climb for a bit.

Yes, many of the body's response mechanisms to rapid changes in exercise intensity have a lag time.  O2 uptake kinetics, stress hormone responses, cardiac output.  Many have a "half life" response time in the order of 30 to 60-seconds.

In incremental exercise tests to exhaustion, maximal HR often occurs shortly after the effort has ceased.  Heart is thumping like crazy but you are doing no work.

Then there are other things like the slow component of VO2max which affects cardiac output even when effort is kept fairly steady for longer periods.

[khendar]

Here's a question that's always bugged me. Do you physically burn weight away during exercise, to the extent that if you weighed yourself before and after the exercise you would notice a difference ? Or is there a lag between doing the exercise and the weight coming off ? I'm guessing your body has reserves of energy like glycogen but purely from a physics standpoint if you're burning stored chemical energy then by definition you must have less fuel than when you started.

[GodSlayer]

Some days, you head into town in the morning, and the wind is in your face

have they invented anything to keep the hissing of the wind out of your ears?

I've thought about trying those neckband headphones, not for music, but just because it looks like the design might shield the ear.

Earplugs ? Thought that'll reduce your situational awareness...

exactly.
what I want is something like sunglasses for ears -- to keep the "wind" off so that I can still hear normally.
it's quite frustrating when people yell and you and think you can hear them, but all you hear is WHHSSSSHHHHH