Author Topic: 911 truthers  (Read 4697 times)

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Offline markofucity

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Re: 911 truthers
« Reply #15 on: Nov 04, 2010, 02:03:46 PM »
actually I'm quite proud of my rebuttal ... it was one of those rare moments where you actually say the perfect thing rather than think of it 2 hours later ...

and yes the teachers have started to reign him in a bit. I'm at Berkeley and its a pretty liberal group - both politically and tolerance wise. It takes awhile for an instructor to step in and cut someone off. They give you a pretty long leash. (they did cut off the slide show I made mention to by the way).

and yes you can form a club ... and he has done so. I believe its called "students against state sponsored crimes against humanity" ... and I believe that professor you mentioned was their first speaker but don't hold me to that. I know about the club only because I know the dean is quite upset that it was approved. Berkeley Public Policy is currently being reviewed by peer universities - so we have folks from Harvard and the like milling about. I know he finds the club quite embarrassing. I was actually in a faculty members office when he came in to complain about it .. and I got the impression that NYC Can places some of the conspiratorial blame on those of the Hebrew persuasion (big surprise there).  does anyone know if that's the case....

anyway - he's not making much headway. People tend to make very reasoned objections and he appears frustrated. IMO he thought that everyone at Berkeley - the so called school for radicals - would see things his way. They don't. I wish I could have taped his last diatribe and the student response .. would have made you guys proud.  He trotted out the standard "molten steel was at building seven and steel doesn't melt at xyz heat..." argument... whereupon someone quite reasonably asked:
"how do you know molten steel was present"
911 guy: well a fireman, a nurse and a reporter said they saw it
"how did they know it was steel and not - say aluminum - are they metallurgists, did they run tests - if i showed you a pool of molten metal would you know what metal it was?"
to which the 911 guy simply looked confused. ...

Offline JoelWhy

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Re: 911 truthers
« Reply #16 on: Nov 04, 2010, 02:07:33 PM »
He trotted out the standard "molten steel was at building seven and steel doesn't melt at xyz heat..." argument... whereupon someone quite reasonably asked:
"how do you know molten steel was present"
911 guy: well a fireman, a nurse and a reporter said they saw it
"how did they know it was steel and not - say aluminum - are they metallurgists, did they run tests - if i showed you a pool of molten metal would you know what metal it was?"
to which the 911 guy simply looked confused. ...


lol...this is precisely one of the points made by this physics professor:

Nutty 9-11 Physics
"I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

Online Chew

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Re: 911 truthers
« Reply #17 on: Nov 04, 2010, 02:16:42 PM »
Did the nutter happen to use this pic in his presentation?


"It is difficult to say what truth is, but sometimes it is easy to recognize falsehood." -Albert Einstein

Online Chew

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Re: 911 truthers
« Reply #18 on: Nov 04, 2010, 02:18:47 PM »
And yes, most of the Truth movement is heavily involved in anti-Semitic movement. Visit some of the wackier "9/11 was an inside job" websites and check out their links.
"It is difficult to say what truth is, but sometimes it is easy to recognize falsehood." -Albert Einstein

Offline JoelWhy

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Re: 911 truthers
« Reply #19 on: Nov 04, 2010, 02:23:53 PM »
And yes, most of the Truth movement is heavily involved in anti-Semitic movement. Visit some of the wackier "9/11 was an inside job" websites and check out their links.

I believe I received my first "all Jews who worked at the WTC called in sick on 9/11" e-mail within 48 hours of the attacks.
"I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

Offline porovaara

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Re: 911 truthers
« Reply #20 on: Nov 04, 2010, 02:40:39 PM »
guys proud.  He trotted out the standard "molten steel was at building seven and steel doesn't melt at xyz heat..." argument... whereupon someone quite reasonably

Super sigh. I thought they all gave up on this one point a couple years ago when a gas (car fuel IIRC) tanker crashed here in the Bay Area and the burning fuel melted all the steal components on an overpass causing it to fail and crash down.

Online Chew

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Re: 911 truthers
« Reply #21 on: Nov 04, 2010, 05:15:10 PM »
guys proud.  He trotted out the standard "molten steel was at building seven and steel doesn't melt at xyz heat..." argument... whereupon someone quite reasonably

Super sigh. I thought they all gave up on this one point a couple years ago when a gas (car fuel IIRC) tanker crashed here in the Bay Area and the burning fuel melted all the steal components on an overpass causing it to fail and crash down.

That was a gubmint plot to discredit all the "first time fire melted steel" truthers. Seriously, there are youtube videos of people claiming you can hear explosives going off right as the overpass smacks into the ground.
"It is difficult to say what truth is, but sometimes it is easy to recognize falsehood." -Albert Einstein

Offline markofucity

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Re: 911 truthers
« Reply #22 on: Nov 04, 2010, 05:22:00 PM »
funny side story ... my father actually works in a steel mill. he was arguing with a 911 consipracist who was actually argued the steel simply doesn't melt - at all. ever.
 in one of the few times I've heard the man yell , he bellowed "I melt steel every day!"

Offline JoelWhy

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Re: 911 truthers
« Reply #23 on: Nov 04, 2010, 05:27:04 PM »
funny side story ... my father actually works in a steel mill. he was arguing with a 911 consipracist who was actually argued the steel simply doesn't melt - at all. ever.
 in one of the few times I've heard the man yell , he bellowed "I melt steel every day!"

Melting steel is an inside job.
"I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

Offline Lyk

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Re: 911 truthers
« Reply #24 on: Nov 04, 2010, 05:56:49 PM »
I remember having seen an awesome debunking video on youtube, that kinda sums it all up and should convince a lot of people.

Can't find it anymore. Dang it

Online Chew

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Re: 911 truthers
« Reply #25 on: Nov 04, 2010, 05:59:09 PM »
I remember having seen an awesome debunking video on youtube, that kinda sums it all up and should convince a lot of people.

Can't find it anymore. Dang it


Screw Loose Change debunked Loose Change. Is this what you were thinking?

2 hours 57 minutes worth of debunkin's' here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3214024953129565561#
"It is difficult to say what truth is, but sometimes it is easy to recognize falsehood." -Albert Einstein

Offline AlaskaGrown

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Re: 911 truthers
« Reply #26 on: Nov 04, 2010, 07:12:01 PM »
I would have to say that this is a fruitless endeavor,  the likelyhood you will have any impact on his belief system on this subject is pretty negligible.

True, but a good rebuttal keeps others in the class from swallowing the story, and perhaps gives them some ammo to counter other truthers they might encounter.

My parents have some acquaintances who are big-time 911 truthers. For those particular truthers it's all mixed up with Big Oil, peak oil cover-ups, and Dick Cheney. After my parents went to a dinner party where the truthers were going on and on, my mom asked me about it. Because of the SGU podcast, I was able to answer her questions and put the bullshit to rest.
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Offline DJBexbot

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Re: 911 truthers
« Reply #27 on: Nov 04, 2010, 07:27:37 PM »
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So...you're one of those "Don't call me a chick" chicks, huh?

Offline GWBBQ

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Re: 911 truthers
« Reply #28 on: Nov 05, 2010, 09:57:55 AM »
Most people like that psychologically get a thrill out of being "one of few smart enough not to get duped".
This is one of the two big draws of conspiracy theories. Not only are they the few who aren't duped, they have the ability and duty to save the masses from their "ignorance." The other is the dissonance brought about by an imbalance in the magnitude of cause and effect -- lone gunman versus the president of the US or 19 guys with box cutters versus 3000 people, the twin towers, and the Pentagon. It's almost the inverse of just world theory in that it's difficult to accept that so few people caused so much harm, in this particular case it helps to distance themselves from the frightening reality that that given the motive, the technical means to commit mass murder are readily available to every one of us.
Super sigh. I thought they all gave up on this one point a couple years ago when a gas (car fuel IIRC) tanker crashed here in the Bay Area and the burning fuel melted all the steal components on an overpass causing it to fail and crash down.
Did it definitely melt, or did it just heat up enough that the modus of elasticity and yield strength dropped to the point that it couldn't hold the bridge up? We had a tanker blow up on I95 in Bridgeport CT and people referred to it as having melted the bridge, but the pictures and video showed that it had only severely deformed and there was not any molten steel.

Offline markofucity

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Re: 911 truthers
« Reply #29 on: Nov 05, 2010, 02:19:26 PM »
funny that you mention the "i'm the one to lead you through the ignorance" motive. His presentation was actually supposed to be on how to overcome denial in an organization (as in a business or a non-profit). He turned that around to: "the entire country is in denial about 911." .. these are the kinds of mental gymnastics he goes through in order to talk about 911 no matter what the actual topic of the class ...
he then proceeded to show the statistics that I mentioned above - purporting to show that largish numbers of people "don't believe the official story." So even his point was convoluted. You're all in denial because you don't accept X! Want proof? - look how many of you accept X!

 

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