Topic: Episode #281

[werecow]

Geo Plays and Jay Says...

Congratulations Jay!

[Beep Boop Boop]

SGU Live in Vancouver with Special Guest: George Hrab
News Items: SETI 50th Anniversary, Antimatter Breakthrough, Nanoparticles and Glowing Trees, Oprah Promotes Psychic Surgeon, Latest PSI Research, Bending Time and Space
Live Q&A: Neurology of Belief, Coincidence, Multi-Level Marketing
Science or Fiction with Special Guest Fraser Cain

You missed an important aspect of the PSI research that a lot of pyschologists are calling him out on.  Aparently, depending on how you interpret his data using statistics a lot of the experiments end up turning into isngificant significance. 

[The Tea Guru]

John Of God film on Oprah

That John of God dude. Oh my Glob. At the end of the video, one of the main partakers is bleeding from the chest from a "miraculous invisible surgery"
The blood is coming from a hole caused, probably, by a needle tipped with blood thinners. It's on a portion of the chest, more accessible to bleeding than the belly. He probably got pricked while there was a bustling crowd and didn't notice.

[Opcn]

If the theft is in principle unobservable then how does the thief observe what he is doing?

Edit: Also, I'm pretty sure stickle back's can in fact "evolve" in three or four years to a salt water form, I think they might develop bony plate armor instead of the smaller scales and there are other shifts associated with survival in salt water. Though these changes are largely epigenetic I believe. I'll try and find a paper on it, but I'm pretty sure it's all old news.

[eddwilson]

As an initial evaluation process in a field with a long and dodgy history (in this case psi), the four tests seem useful.  As a more general policy, however, I think the demand for a large effect is unreasonable.

If a 53% effect (small but significant) was replicable and observed in other study designs, that would surely be respectable.

And if such an effect was established (subject always to disproof...) it would not defeat skepticism as the caricature psi researcher might argue.  Many skeptics might find it hard to swallow, but it would have "become science".

Don't get me wrong - good experimental method has failed to demonstrate psi effects and experiments which claim to demonstrate have been shown to be poorly designed and executed.  There seems little reason to expect the development above.  We must simply accept that skeptics are not against psi as such:  we are against bad science.

[Steven Novella]

As I said - the large effect size criterion is not general but should be considered with certain kinds of research. For example, in physics tiny effect sizes may be appropriate.

But when dealing with human research, tiny effect sizes are always suspect because there is a certain amount of noise in the system that is very difficult to get rid of. Small effect sizes in this context will therefore always be suspect.

[Beep Boop Boop]

John Of God film on Oprah That John of God dude. Oh my Glob. At the end of the video, one of the main partakers is bleeding from the chest from a "miraculous invisible surgery"
The blood is coming from a hole caused, probably, by a needle tipped with blood thinners. It's on a portion of the chest, more accessible to bleeding than the belly. He probably got pricked while there was a bustling crowd and didn't notice.

Actually according to Gorski that was the token "skeptic".   :'(

[GodSlayer]

As an initial evaluation process in a field with a long and dodgy history (in this case psi), the four tests seem useful.  As a more general policy, however, I think the demand for a large effect is unreasonable.

If a 53% effect (small but significant) was replicable and observed in other study designs, that would surely be respectable.

I can flip a coin and make it land 'heads' 53% of the time
...at least, when my telekinetic powers are at their strongest.
Sometimes it's only 51%, and sometimes my control of my powers is so poor that I end up making it land tails 50+% of the time by accident.

more research is needed.

[Hypersapien]

Hey guys, I just wanted to add a little point of interest here regarding the "Orange-Sporange-Door Hinge" coincidence.

There is a phenomenon referred to as "Diegogarcity" that explains the sudden introduction of something which presumably has existed all along, but you're awareness of it hits you from multiple sources in a short period of time.

NPR had a story about this a while back, and while I'm paraphrasing here, they said basically the person who coined the term had recently learned about the Diego Garcia islands located in the indian ocean. Within days of this discovery, he or she talked to several people who mentioned Diego Garcia as a vacation destination.

I don't think any serious dictionary lists Diegogarcity, but its a fun word to use anyways.

[Trinoc]

On the actual question of whether "orange" has a rhyme ... I always understood that a rhyme consisted of the final stressed vowel and everything after it (as described here), but should not include the complete word. The trouble is that the final stressed vowel in "orange" is the initial "o", so a rhyme could only be the complete "orange" sound. So, "sporange" could (at a pinch) be said to rhyme with "door hinge" (and I think there is a word "blorenge"), but none of these (or anything else) strictly rhymes with "orange".

Of course this is a pedantic argument. What about things that actually sound rhyme-like when paired with "orange"? I can't think of any of those either. Anything sounds awkward.

[GodSlayer]

On the actual question of whether "orange" has a rhyme ... I always understood that a rhyme consisted of the final stressed vowel and everything after it (as described here), but should not include the complete word. The trouble is that the final stressed vowel in "orange" is the initial "o", so a rhyme could only be the complete "orange" sound. So, "sporange" could (at a pinch) be said to rhyme with "door hinge" (and I think there is a word "blorenge"), but none of these (or anything else) strictly rhymes with "orange".

Of course this is a pedantic argument. What about things that actually sound rhyme-like when paired with "orange"? I can't think of any of those either. Anything sounds awkward.

I'm just surprised no one mentioned the 20/20 Eminem interview on this -- he's such a beautiful mind he's able to rhyme words no one before him could!.  It was quite a spectacle.

[GodSlayer]

Of course this is a pedantic argument. What about things that actually sound rhyme-like when paired with "orange"? I can't think of any of those either. Anything sounds awkward.

in British English we have the word "whinge", equivalent to the American "whine".

[OldScotch]

Just wanted to add that for a live show, the audio quality was particularly good for this episode. Entirely listen-to-able..? - it actually felt more immersive.

And yes, George was great

[The Tea Guru]

On the actual question of whether "orange" has a rhyme ... I always understood that a rhyme consisted of the final stressed vowel and everything after it (as described here), but should not include the complete word. The trouble is that the final stressed vowel in "orange" is the initial "o", so a rhyme could only be the complete "orange" sound. So, "sporange" could (at a pinch) be said to rhyme with "door hinge" (and I think there is a word "blorenge"), but none of these (or anything else) strictly rhymes with "orange".

Of course this is a pedantic argument. What about things that actually sound rhyme-like when paired with "orange"? I can't think of any of those either. Anything sounds awkward.

I'm just surprised no one mentioned the 20/20 Eminem interview on this -- he's such a beautiful mind he's able to rhyme words no one before him could!.  It was quite a spectacle.

home, home on lagrange.

[seaotter]

On the actual question of whether "orange" has a rhyme ... I always understood that a rhyme consisted of the final stressed vowel and everything after it (as described here), but should not include the complete word. The trouble is that the final stressed vowel in "orange" is the initial "o", so a rhyme could only be the complete "orange" sound. So, "sporange" could (at a pinch) be said to rhyme with "door hinge" (and I think there is a word "blorenge"), but none of these (or anything else) strictly rhymes with "orange".

Of course this is a pedantic argument. What about things that actually sound rhyme-like when paired with "orange"? I can't think of any of those either. Anything sounds awkward.

I'm just surprised no one mentioned the 20/20 Eminem interview on this -- he's such a beautiful mind he's able to rhyme words no one before him could!.  It was quite a spectacle.

home, home on lagrange.

I don't get your point.