Topic: BASS PLAYING

[randallstevens]

Yeah...  it's a little out of tune (the repeated low note is sharp), in addition to the intentional major 7ths. Sounds like a fretless to me on the slides at the end of the phrases. Doesn't really bug me... but it's usually pretty quiet compared to the lady with the nice accent. I don't have perfect pitch, but half decent relative pitch.

[Johnny Slick]

Pitch appeared to be the first thing to go for me when I went away from playing several hours a day, so I will acquiesce to your superior ear!

[T.A.P.O.R.]

Yeah...  it's a little out of tune (the repeated low note is sharp), in addition to the intentional major 7ths. Sounds like a fretless to me on the slides at the end of the phrases. Doesn't really bug me... but it's usually pretty quiet compared to the lady with the nice accent. I don't have perfect pitch, but half decent relative pitch.

 

Oh right, in that bit. Well... you've screwed me now.
That's all I'm going to be able to hear!

[randallstevens]

Yeah...  it's a little out of tune (the repeated low note is sharp), in addition to the intentional major 7ths. Sounds like a fretless to me on the slides at the end of the phrases. Doesn't really bug me... but it's usually pretty quiet compared to the lady with the nice accent. I don't have perfect pitch, but half decent relative pitch.

 

Oh right, in that bit. Well... you've screwed me now.
That's all I'm going to be able to hear!

Ha... yeah I didn't really hear it until I saw this thread. Given that, I'm not ruling out the bascebo effect. 

[T.A.P.O.R.]

I've listened for it, but can't tell where it it.
Phew.

so an update on my tone deaf buddy.

He sent me a big thankyou email to me a couple of days ago, saying how showing him how a scale worked has improved his riffs.
 

[seamas]

Wow, really? Because tuning an electric instrument by ear is MASSIVELY easy. You just play the harmonic above the 4th fret on the lower string, play the 6th on the higher string, and tune the higher string until the woowowowowowowow sound becomes woooooooooooo. Hah, come to think of it I got dudes pissed at me on another board because a dude was beginning to play guitar and I told him he should learn how to do this instead of tuning every string to a tuner. I still say I am right! 

Not really.

Tuning with harmonics will put you out of tune slightly--and you will compound this when you tune the subsequent string.

Harmonics would work if we were using the "just intonation" or "pythogorean tuning" but we don't.

We use "Equal temperament", so those harmonics on the 7th fret are slightly out of tune. (equal temperament makes the distance between all half-tones equal, so one can play in all keys)

The best bet is to tune with fretted notes, a pitch pipe or a tuner.


One of the reasons for the use "power chords" when using distortion is that distortion increases the sound of certain overtones--and the one the correlates to the 3rd is out of tune and will clash with a fretted third, so it is best to omit the third.

[T.A.P.O.R.]

Wow, really? Because tuning an electric instrument by ear is MASSIVELY easy. You just play the harmonic above the 4th fret on the lower string, play the 6th on the higher string, and tune the higher string until the woowowowowowowow sound becomes woooooooooooo. Hah, come to think of it I got dudes pissed at me on another board because a dude was beginning to play guitar and I told him he should learn how to do this instead of tuning every string to a tuner. I still say I am right! 

Not really.

Tuning with harmonics will put you out of tune slightly--and you will compound this when you tune the subsequent string.

Harmonics would work if we were using the "just intonation" or "pythogorean tuning" but we don't.

We use "Equal temperament", so those harmonics on the 7th fret are slightly out of tune. (equal temperament makes the distance between all half-tones equal, so one can play in all keys)

The best bet is to tune with fretted notes, a pitch pipe or a tuner.


One of the reasons for the use "power chords" when using distortion is that distortion increases the sound of certain overtones--and the one the correlates to the 3rd is out of tune and will clash with a fretted third, so it is best to omit the third.

Interesting.

Source?
We loves us some extra curricular reading round these parts

[AxeGrrl]

If you can't tune by ear, how the heck will you know if you're out of tune?

Indeed.  I tell this anecdote to all of my new students........I had an adult student a few years ago who depended on his electronic tuner to do the job ~ one time, when he went to tune, the batteries in his tuner were low/almost gone, but he tried to press on......anyway, when he was done, he played a major chord and it sounded like the 'devil's interval' (tritone) blended with a diminished 7th!  The kicker?   he could NOT tell that there was anything wrong!

When I pointed out the problem/dissonance, he said:   "but the green light came on"

The lesson:  put in the time to train your ear.   Perfect pitch isn't necessary, having great relative pitch is where its at

[seamas]

Wow, really? Because tuning an electric instrument by ear is MASSIVELY easy. You just play the harmonic above the 4th fret on the lower string, play the 6th on the higher string, and tune the higher string until the woowowowowowowow sound becomes woooooooooooo. Hah, come to think of it I got dudes pissed at me on another board because a dude was beginning to play guitar and I told him he should learn how to do this instead of tuning every string to a tuner. I still say I am right! 

Not really.

Tuning with harmonics will put you out of tune slightly--and you will compound this when you tune the subsequent string.

Harmonics would work if we were using the "just intonation" or "pythogorean tuning" but we don't.

We use "Equal temperament", so those harmonics on the 7th fret are slightly out of tune. (equal temperament makes the distance between all half-tones equal, so one can play in all keys)

The best bet is to tune with fretted notes, a pitch pipe or a tuner.


One of the reasons for the use "power chords" when using distortion is that distortion increases the sound of certain overtones--and the one the correlates to the 3rd is out of tune and will clash with a fretted third, so it is best to omit the third.

Interesting.

Source?

A variety of sources--I'll see if I can't dig some up, but you should be able to get what you need by looking up "equal temperament".
Because of equal temperament, (which is necessary to play music in all keys, or to modulate between keys with minimum "wolf tones") the natural overtone series is then "out of tune" with equal temperament--so natural harmonics (a direct part of the overtone series) are slightly out of tune. The 12 fret and fifth fret harmonics are in tune because they are octaves, the rest are out slightly.

This can become most evident when playing extended chords-like Maj 9 or Min maj7 with a lot of distortion. The overtones conflict with the thirds, sevenths and ninths--which will make the chords sound awful.

[T.A.P.O.R.]

Wow, really? Because tuning an electric instrument by ear is MASSIVELY easy. You just play the harmonic above the 4th fret on the lower string, play the 6th on the higher string, and tune the higher string until the woowowowowowowow sound becomes woooooooooooo. Hah, come to think of it I got dudes pissed at me on another board because a dude was beginning to play guitar and I told him he should learn how to do this instead of tuning every string to a tuner. I still say I am right! 

Not really.

Tuning with harmonics will put you out of tune slightly--and you will compound this when you tune the subsequent string.

Harmonics would work if we were using the "just intonation" or "pythogorean tuning" but we don't.

We use "Equal temperament", so those harmonics on the 7th fret are slightly out of tune. (equal temperament makes the distance between all half-tones equal, so one can play in all keys)

The best bet is to tune with fretted notes, a pitch pipe or a tuner.


One of the reasons for the use "power chords" when using distortion is that distortion increases the sound of certain overtones--and the one the correlates to the 3rd is out of tune and will clash with a fretted third, so it is best to omit the third.

(click to show/hide)

Interesting.

Source?

A variety of sources--I'll see if I can't dig some up, but you should be able to get what you need by looking up "equal temperament".
Because of equal temperament, (which is necessary to play music in all keys, or to modulate between keys with minimum "wolf tones") the natural overtone series is then "out of tune" with equal temperament--so natural harmonics (a direct part of the overtone series) are slightly out of tune. The 12 fret and fifth fret harmonics are in tune because they are octaves, the rest are out slightly.

This can become most evident when playing extended chords-like Maj 9 or Min maj7 with a lot of distortion. The overtones conflict with the thirds, sevenths and ninths--which will make the chords sound awful.

This seems to explain why my b string never sounded right if I tuned harmonically on the bottom four.
20 years of playing guitar and I only find out now!

I always figured that every guitar that I owned had intonation problems, even after being setup properly.

[Soundtweaker]

When we recorded the old version of Theorem for the intro/outro, we tuned down a half step because our singer was having trouble reaching some of the high notes on other songs. It was played on a fretted 5 string Rickenbacker bass.
This new version is also on the Rickenbacker but tuned in normal tuning.
We are now called the Illogistical Resource Dept.

BTW if you'd like to hear more of our music check out
https://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/pages/Illogistical-Resource-Dept/193085417369255



Thanks,

Dan

[T.A.P.O.R.]

When we recorded the old version of Theorem for the intro/outro, we tuned down a half step because our singer was having trouble reaching some of the high notes on other songs. It was played on a fretted 5 string Rickenbacker bass.
This new version is also on the Rickenbacker but tuned in normal tuning.
We are now called the Illogistical Resource Dept.

BTW if you'd like to hear more of our music check out
https://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/pages/Illogistical-Resource-Dept/193085417369255

Thanks,

Dan

Sweet  Dan, welcome to the boards.

Mystery solved!
Inappropriate tuning for neck scale will go it to ya.

[Johnny Slick]

Wow, really? Because tuning an electric instrument by ear is MASSIVELY easy. You just play the harmonic above the 4th fret on the lower string, play the 6th on the higher string, and tune the higher string until the woowowowowowowow sound becomes woooooooooooo. Hah, come to think of it I got dudes pissed at me on another board because a dude was beginning to play guitar and I told him he should learn how to do this instead of tuning every string to a tuner. I still say I am right! 

Not really.

Tuning with harmonics will put you out of tune slightly--and you will compound this when you tune the subsequent string.

Harmonics would work if we were using the "just intonation" or "pythogorean tuning" but we don't.

We use "Equal temperament", so those harmonics on the 7th fret are slightly out of tune. (equal temperament makes the distance between all half-tones equal, so one can play in all keys)

The best bet is to tune with fretted notes, a pitch pipe or a tuner.


One of the reasons for the use "power chords" when using distortion is that distortion increases the sound of certain overtones--and the one the correlates to the 3rd is out of tune and will clash with a fretted third, so it is best to omit the third.

(click to show/hide)

Interesting.

Source?

A variety of sources--I'll see if I can't dig some up, but you should be able to get what you need by looking up "equal temperament".
Because of equal temperament, (which is necessary to play music in all keys, or to modulate between keys with minimum "wolf tones") the natural overtone series is then "out of tune" with equal temperament--so natural harmonics (a direct part of the overtone series) are slightly out of tune. The 12 fret and fifth fret harmonics are in tune because they are octaves, the rest are out slightly.

This can become most evident when playing extended chords-like Maj 9 or Min maj7 with a lot of distortion. The overtones conflict with the thirds, sevenths and ninths--which will make the chords sound awful.

This seems to explain why my b string never sounded right if I tuned harmonically on the bottom four.
20 years of playing guitar and I only find out now!

I always figured that every guitar that I owned had intonation problems, even after being setup properly.

In fairness, the 5th that you play by hitting the 7th fret is only a little tiny bit out of tune because it is, pitch-wise, halfway between octaves and thus not subject to even tempering too badly. If you have a bass, you probably will never really run into those issues. I guess if you're doing some studio recording you'd want to take some extra time and not just tune harmonically (although you're probably going to take some extra time anyway). However, the G-B on a regular guitar probably shouldn't be tuned with harmonics for the reasons stated.

[T.A.P.O.R.]

As cool as it is owning 15 guitars, the maintenance is a real bummer.
I spent half of yesterday doing  the intonation on three guitars.
I really should pay someone to do it, but then I'd be out of quite a bit of cash 

[seamas]

In fairness, the 5th that you play by hitting the 7th fret is only a little tiny bit out of tune because it is, pitch-wise, halfway between octaves and thus not subject to even tempering too badly.

Correct. From one string to another, you'll only be a cent or two off.
The problem would lie when it is compounded upon the subsequent string. That slightly out of tune string is now the reference for the following string, which will now be 2X as out of tune from the initial string, then further compounded yet again upon the following string.