Topic: Australian TV Getting It Wrong Too...

[Apellosine]

McArthur's Natural Products - http://www.mcarthurnaturalproducts.com/

A topical cream made from pawpaws that will cure lots of things, skin cancer, migraines, joint pain, chronic pain, also basic cuts and burns.  It not only got it's initial showing on the show "Today Tonight" but got such a huge response from the audience that they had a follow up article a few days later.

A few extracts from the website that caught my eyes:
"I've cut myself, I've burnt myself, and I've made myself ill. It takes about four to five seconds and the pain just dissipates," says Tom. O.O A few seconds, for pain to dissipate

"We've seen cellulite disappear in 24 hours, we've seen ulcers that have been classified as stage four and in twenty minutes then said to be stage two. Pain, cellulite and ulcers is there anything this stuff can't do?

"We've actually had quite a few cases where they've come in with skin cancer and yes, we've gotten rid of it," he claims. Oh, of course had to include cancer in there as well, didn't we?

Having already lost three toes to gangrene, he was about to have his left foot amputated. Then, Gerard met Tom..."Healed, totally healed in nine weeks, without scars. Gangrene, I mean that's supposed to incurable," says Tom. and Gangrene

"If nature has created the disease, I do believe that nature will also provide the cure," says Tom. Any reasoning behind this

"What I was looking for was a way of changing the molecular structure to produce something that wasn't there." ??

Tom says: "I believe antibiotics will fail in the future because the viruses are getting stronger and immune to what we're producing now so eventually we will have to go back to the jungle to find a replacement. Those damn antibiotics won't be helping with viruses in the future and even if it did make sense any evidence?



Notice how cheap it is for this miracle cure?  3 bars of soap $16.50, 50ml facial cream for $30, 250ml skincare cream $50.

During the show they made a big deal about him not wanting to sell his product to the pharmaceutical companies, not really explained why but probably has to do with the whole natural fallacy thing.  It also reminds me of a Dara O'Brien bit:

"Herbal Medicine has been around for thousands of years, indeed it has and then we tested it all and the stuff that worked became "medicine" and the rest of it is just a nice bowl of soup and some poupori"

anyway, probably not the best written post but that's what you get from a sleep deprived brain at 1am.

[Mr Scumbag]

Thanks for posting this. Immediately after the story aired my mum came online and started talking to me about it. She said she was trying to get onto the site but it was overloaded. Make no mistake, she's very smart and was skeptical of the claims, but she's suffering from arthritis and she's not even 50, and she's hopeful anything can give her relief. In short order I managed to convince her not to go for it by citing a few sources and just giving her some basic info. I'm pretty sure she never went any further than that as she seemed to be receptive of my case.

I went to the ACA website a few days later to read the comments on the story. I think I counted one or two that were skeptical. The rest were asking where to buy the products (in appalling grammar/English/punctuation).

So frustrating.

[T.A.P.O.R.]

Paw paw is a pretty decent ointment for cuts and scrapes.
The rest of the stuff?

Umm... the rest of the claims though.

[JuniorSpaceman]

A Current Today/Affair Tonight have always been bad, but recently they've been dipping more and more into straight out ads for quackery.  I too wish I could ignore it, if it weren't for family members buying into it, and then getting upset when I act as 'party pooper' and try to save them money.

[T.A.P.O.R.]

I've banned the shows from my house.
They just make me super angry.

The shite isn't just a woo advertiser, the whole thing is a bee's dick away from being late night infomercial.

[Angel]

hi
i to am skeptical about most things i don't understand or know about, but i'm also one who likes to try things once if they are natural, i'm suprised that anybody can judge without doing their homework on things, because if you did you would know what you are talking about, being a skeptic does not mean sarcasm, pulling people to bits you must do your home work other wise people will pull you down and not take what you have to say seriously, i did try Tom's products and actually they did work my psoriasis has almost gone and my husbands arthretic joint in his hand has gone down and he does not have any pain now, so what cannot speak cannot lie, i for one am very happy x Angel

[Marty Roach]

Hi all

I am Marty the Marketing and Communications Manager at McArthur Natural Products. I have only just come across these posts hence my late response.

While I expect a healthy does of sceptism on this forum I would encourage anyone interested in our products to do their due diligence in determing how well the products work. We have a very active facebook site at www.facebook.com/mcarthurnaturalproducts which is filled with literally thousands of posts and recommendations.

Thanks also to Angel for posting her postive experiences in using our products and for encouraging others to do their homework.

If anyone has any queries feel free to contact me on 1300 309 105.


Marty.

[Caffiene]

While I expect a healthy does of sceptism on this forum I would encourage anyone interested in our products to do their due diligence in determing how well the products work.

Fair enough. So I assume you have links to double blind trials showing actual evidence of efficacy?

We have a very active facebook site at www.facebook.com/mcarthurnaturalproducts which is filled with literally thousands of posts and recommendations.

Oh... I guess you dont, then? Just anecdotes?

Can I ask you, if these anecdotes are enough to prove your product, do you also believe in bigfoot? I can show just as many anecdotes from people who say bigfoot is real. Do you believe in alien visitation? Again, I can show just as many anecdotes. Do you believe that world is run by a shadowy conspiracy of reptilian shapeshifters that disguise themselves as world leaders? Have a look at David Icke's website - it has "literally thousands of posts and recommendations" on it about the reptilian overlord conspiracy.


Doing due diligence does not mean "ask some people and just take their word for it". It means looking for actual scientific evidence of efficacy and evaluating all the evidence to come up with an accurate viewpoint.

But of course, you already know that. As your own website says:

Due to TGA guidelines we are unable to make any claims of being able to cure ailments.

The TGA wont let you make claims, because you cant provide any evidence that your product works. The TGA would allow you to make claims if you were able to prove them.

[Neon Genesis]

My spambot senses are tingling. 

[Caffiene]

For cases like this it tends not so much to be spambots, but rather PR people with google alerts set up for their product.

Every so often they go through and look for negative results and then to do drive-bys to try to cancel them out. Usually its not very effective because they dont bother to put in much effort to address the complaints against them, they just do their canned PR spiel... which ends up sounding a lot like a spambot.

[Marty Roach]

Caffiene

Thanks for your response.

Several of your points are of course pertinent. Ideally our products would have TGA registration allowing us to make claims about our products. The TGA registration process, however, is not a short one although we hope to make some developments on this in the future.

Of course in a general sense pawpaw has been cultivated for centuries for its medicinal properties.

However, I must correct you in that I never stated that "anecdotes" (an anecdote is a short and amusing or interesting story about a real incident or person) by the way, proves our products. I'm not posting to prove a point, i'm posting to say that a forum exists for people to talk about how well a product has worked for them. For people who value word of mouth and the customer experiences of others, this is a valuable tool in helping them make a purchase decision.

Of course other people prefer double blind trials for efficacy in making their decisions.

I'm not exactly sure how you link customer feedback on a product to alien visitation or reptilian overlords. The link is so tenous it isn't worth discussing to be honest.

I'm not here (especially so on a sceptic site) to provide my opinion on the products. I'm here to let people know they have an opportunity to find out further information from people independent of McArthur Natural Products. This may be beneficial to some people who research information is this way and to others of course it will be of no value whatsoever.

Marty.

[Marty Roach]

Hi Neon Genesis

Hopefully i'm not sounding like a spambot...

I thought I would add some balance to the discussions on the thread. I'm sure everyone here will make up their own minds as they see fit.

Marty.

[Chew]

The only "balance" allowed in science is this:

(click to show/hide)

[Caffiene]

I look forward to seeing how the TGA approval process goes, and hopefully the chance to see the studies used as evidence in the process. If it is convincing and scientifically sound, then that would be great news.

Of course in a general sense pawpaw has been cultivated for centuries for its medicinal properties.

Do you have a reliable citation for that? The only thing I can find is that it may have been used in south-western Asia as an abortive because the latex in unripe pawpaw may be able to cause miscarriage.

But Im not sure that this use has been "for centuries", nor do I think that causing miscarriages is related to what you want your product to be known for, so I assuming you have some other traditional practice in mind.

However, I must correct you in that I never stated that "anecdotes" (an anecdote is a short and amusing or interesting story about a real incident or person) by the way, proves our products.
[...]
I'm not exactly sure how you link customer feedback on a product to alien visitation or reptilian overlords. The link is so tenous it isn't worth discussing to be honest.

You suggested that reading your "thousands of posts and recommendations" was a necessary part of due diligence in deciding, and I quote, "how well the products work".

The implication being that posts and recommendations are a key factor in the truth of scientific claims about an issue (since you implied that those here had not done their due diligence because they hadnt read the anecdotes on your facebook page). If your posts and recommendations are a key factor in deciding how well your products work, presumably based on the argument that so many people couldnt be mistaken (since none of the posts I read on your page mentioned any other relevant details beyond "it worked" or "I like it"), then you must equally assume that people who talk about reptilian overlords also couldnt be mistaken because theres so many of them.

The alternative is that people's testimony is not reliable - that just because even thousands of people may claim something does not make it true, because people are remarkably easily confused and misled.

(And yes, an anecdote is a "a short interesting story". Presumably this is what you intended the posts and recommendations to be, because they are obviously stories and you seem to intend them to be of interest to people. Therefore: Anecdotes.)

[Marty Roach]

Hi Caffiene

I find it extremely hard to believe that a google search on pawpaw resulted only in a reference to pawpaw seeds being used an abortive. See below for some general links on pawpaw:

http://www.naturaltherapypages.com.au/article/the_benefits_of_paw_paw
http://www.sciencepub.net/nature/ns1003/003_8252ns1003_16_22.pdf

As previously mentioned I suggested that anyone interested in our products would do well to read through some of the comments on our facebook page. At no stage did I infer that is a key factor in any scientific claims whatsoever. Customer feedback means exactly that - feedback from customers. For many people customer feedback is a key element in their decision to purchase a product. Some use scientific research some use feedback / word of mouth. Forming an opinion on how well a product works is up to the individual.

Virtually none of the posts on our facebook page are so brief as to be two or three words long except perhaps comments on status updates. Look under notes or recommendations for more detailed customer feedback. Please note that it is an open forum so people can post negative as well as positive information.

In retrospect I should not have used the words due diligence, because not everyone uses facebook / social media or customer feedback in making a decision.

I have taken the time to post on this site because I believe that our products are having a positive impact on many people's lives. Extremely negative posts are likely to sway people from using the products. Perhaps some of the people influenced may have gotten some benefit from using our products. I therefore have provided some balance to the thread and offered to answer any queries readers may have.

I will leave it at that, but will be sure to update the thread with any pertinent information in the future.

Marty.