Topic: Podcast #46

[pholt]

Mark Twain wrote about Mark Baker Eddy and Christian Science.  It can be found here: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/3187

His contemporary view is interesting.

So 9/11 conspiracy nutjobs think ground effect stops aircraft flying close to the ground?  That is a complete load of garbage.

Ground effect, for anyone who doesn't know, describes the tendency for air to compressed between the wings and the ground when an aircraft is close to the ground.  It does not prevent an aircraft flying close to the ground, it merely provides additional lift.

The most interesting thing to me about conspiracy theories is that, like other crazy and demonstrably wrong beliefs, the believers don't believe because of evidence, they believe because they need to.    This leads to speculation about the kinds of psychological disturbance that would cause someone to need to believe that their government would murder thousands of their own people to gain some kind of political advantage.

BTW, if anyone takes offence at my describing conspiracy theorists as nutjobs, I don't care.  So don't waste your time.

Peter

[JD]

Well here's what I was wondering about those ground effect conspiracies: how does that account for landing planes?  It's just silly.

That was a good episode, by the way.

[Thakkus]

I'm listening again.  The 9-11 conspiracy section is great!

[Luna]

don't forget im mentioned.

[Thakkus]

BTW, if anyone takes offence at my describing conspiracy theorists as nutjobs, I don't care.  So don't waste your time.
Peter

LOL.  I love it.    But what about the conspiracy theorists who turn out to be right?  Are they nutjobs too?

[Paulhoff]

I would loved to have met Mark Twain.

Paul

     

[bort]

I would loved to have met Mark Twain.

 Personally, I would have rather met a real person, say Samuel Clemens.  :wink:

As far as the the whole brain drain thing,  I don't think I agree with Dr. Plait.  I don't think that we are really going to lose a generation of aspiring scientists due to a lack of funding at NASA.  People who really love astronomy (and any other science) will go into the field either way.  A couple pretty pictures don't mater in my opinion.

[Paulhoff]

HA HA HA HA HA, geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Paul

     

Lorraine where are the bullets for the gun.

[Thakkus]

A revival of the moon exploration age might bolster interest in science among American school kids.

[Tai Fung]

Greetings --

First post here, and I suspect I won't have a great deal of time to post at all, so I'll just say what I've told Steve in an e-mail already.  I used to use the NESS website as a reference "way back when," and discovered the podcast almost immediately as soon as they first started putting them up on the site.  I've really enjoyed seeing the show grow (and improve).

To this episode, let me say that 9/11 conspiracy theorists actually upset me to the point that I *think* I know how folks of the Jewish faith feel about Holocaust deniers (no, 6 million does not equal 3K, but I think the comparison is at least fair, because the 9/11 deniers absolutely sully the memory of those who lost their lives on 9/11).

To be sure, it's fair to say that there's a legitimate argument between the "Hey, this took us completely by surprise" theory and the, "Oh, crud, the evidence was there, we could have stopped it, but we had an intelligence failure and didn't communicate enough to stop it" theory.  That at least recognizes that the "it" was what actually happened -- a well-planned attack by Islamic suicide terrorists.

Anyway, I was GOING to write about episode 45 to comment that I didn't think the podcast had devoted enough time to eradicating each and every one of the conspiracy theories, because 9/11 deniers are a shameful and relentless lot.  However, then we had episode 46, and the links provided.  

I very much appreciate any and all time given to 9/11 debunking, and would hope perhaps for this September, a full show could be devoted to a comprehensive attack on some of the more prevalent theories.  If anything, the show could be done as a "coaching" tool for those folks who wish to engage (and destroy) 9/11 conspiracy nuts by going over the flaws in each theory.

This show often refers to how even some skeptics have "Sacred Cows," i.e., thing that skeptics believe but shouldn't (good luck charms, the odd eastern health technique, whatever).  Penn & Teller referred to it as "Everybody got a Gris-Gris."

However, for me, 9/11 conspirators represent the inverse of that phrase -- a theory that so incenses me that to merely dismiss it as nuts is to forget those who lost their lives on 9/11.  These conspiracy nuts should be engaged, attacked, and exposed.  Anytime that it's done, as it was in episode 46, we should applaud that.

Anyway, I'm off.  Be well all!

[Steven Novella]

Saying we will lose a generation of astronomers is probably exaggerating - painting a worse case scenario. But then, what do you expect from an astronomer.

However, the point of losing scientists is completely legitimate. It's not just about pretty pictures. Many astronomers depend upon NASA science for thier research. No NASA funding, no research, no career. They have several choices - pick different research (difficult, and also that's what all the other displace astronomers are going to want to do), choose a different career, or leave American and try to get on a telescope or whatever in Europe or Australia. Either way, that's fewer astronomers in American doing research.

[Tai Fung]

One other point I just thought of -- how come none of the al-Qaeda bigwigs have released a tape saying, "Hey, Americans -- sure we hate you and all, but we didn't pull off 9/11 -- it was your own government.  Kill Bush and we'll call it all even."

Instead, al-Qaeda properly takes credit for it, and no one's refuted the Ron Jeremy looking-guy's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Sheikh_Mohammed role as the genius who actually hit on the idea of jetliners loaded with fuel smashing into buildings.

But seriously -- wouldn't there be at least ONE OBL terror tape saying, "Hoo, boy -- your government sure fooled all you guys -- we were playing Strat-o-matic at home on 9/11."


Edit/Update:  Just saw this on CNN - interesting.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/06/13/911.hijacker/index.html

[JD]

Hard to say.  Which would they want more - for the american people to fight against it's government, or to take credit for the biggest attack on America since Pearl Harbor?  They're easily capable of either.

[Bleedinbob]

I really enjoyed Phil Plait's views on NASA.  I do not agree that they need more funding, rather as he said jokingly, they need a facist dictator to point them all in one specific direction.  Leadership is where they are lacking.  With the amount of money that has been budgeted to them over the last 20 years, I would have expected to see more results.

I joined the podcast two episodes ago.  Absolutely love it.  Keep it up and thank you.

[Paulhoff]

Science is like creativity; you can not expect so much results for so much money. Also the more complicated something is the much harder it is to develop. As for me, dump a lot of money into it, we waste a hell of lot more on wars.

Paul