Author Topic: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread  (Read 17266 times)

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Offline GodSlayer

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Re: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread
« Reply #645 on: Today at 03:23:15 AM »
it seems like a strange decision to introduce a time paradox, though.

I mean, if you can mindfuck Hodor for life through this worging stuff, how about destroying Joffrey or the white walker four horsemen before they do anything substantial?

Note that there's no paradox here. So far, at least, it's a fixed timeline.

so why did Hodor start obsessing about holding the door 20 years earlier than he needed to?
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Offline Eternally Learning

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Re: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread
« Reply #646 on: Today at 03:45:03 AM »
The only thing the White Walkers explanation introduced is a cliche "but it's really your people's fault after all" after-school special moral lesson.  That is all.  It helps nothing in terms of the plot so far or character development.  Think of it this way, get rid of the children of the forest and zombies from the Bran's story line and just have him see an old tree-man to learn the ways of the force and the lessons about stories he heard about Ned vs. reality and nothing is changed.  This was an arc of Bran growing up and becoming a more skilled warg and greenseer.

I sure hope they don't do any more explaining, like what all the gods are if any and so on.  The White Walkers being mysterious in origin and in nature made them more terrifying and gave more room for your imagination.  Lots of mysteries don't require an explanation, just answer the questions of the story you're telling.

Isn't this a bit short-sighted though?  We only just found out about their origin; just because it didn't further the existing plots this episode doesn't mean that it won't be of some significance later on in the series.  Especially since I'm starting to wonder about Bran going south of the wall ruining that magical barrier too (and in conjunction with Jon telling Edd to not let the wall fall while he's gone...), I'm guessing that the origins of all the magical things in Westeros is going to seriously come into play with strategizing the war against the Others.  Also, I didn't take it as a blame the humans thing, just a this is what happened thing, and if the 3-eyed Raven is preparing Bran for his war against the Others, then knowing as much about them as possible would seem to be important anyway, even if it doesn't end up being relevant to the overall narrative.

When it is significant, then you reveal.  Or alternatively (and better) you plant seeds of the reveal for the people to connect the dots later when the last piece falls into place.

In either case, it won't matter, I'm pretty sure of it.  The key to understanding the significance of the reveal is what does it change for the characters in the story, not what it explains to us.  What has Bran learned from knowing this that will change him?  And if the answer to that "he learned a valuable moral lesson about unintended consequences" then that bolsters my after-school special level of hackneyed writing criticism.

That being said, I changed my mind about the Hodor scene, I think in retrospect it was pretty cool.  I just wish it wasn't preceded by that action sequence.

But the scene wasn't shot as a big reveal at all.  Sounds less like a writing problem and more like a mismatch of reality vs your expectations.  The whole scene was basically the 3-eyed Raven telling Bran their origin and that's it.  Didn't feel like a big deal for much of anyone beyond Bran's initial surprise.  You say, "When it is significant, then you reveal," but nothing in the episode even really hinted that the origin of the Others was terribly significant.  It seems more likely to me that the scene itself is a seed planted for future revelations.

Offline mindme

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Re: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread
« Reply #647 on: Today at 09:05:25 AM »
The Hodor thing seemed a bit lifted from A Prayer for Owen Meany. The pre-cog "training for one thing" but the viewer or reader is unaware and then we slap our foreheads going "ah, that's why!" That was also used in that UFO movie Signs.

I would have liked to see one epic battle at this point. We've got like 3 in the wings. The Scouring of the High Sparrow, Battle of the Fields of Winterfell, and the War of the Last Slave Alliance.

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Offline stonesean

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Re: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread
« Reply #648 on: Today at 10:13:15 AM »
The Hodor thing seemed a bit lifted from A Prayer for Owen Meany. The pre-cog "training for one thing" but the viewer or reader is unaware and then we slap our foreheads going "ah, that's why!" That was also used in that UFO movie Signs.

I would have liked to see one epic battle at this point. We've got like 3 in the wings. The Scouring of the High Sparrow, Battle of the Fields of Winterfell, and the War of the Last Slave Alliance.

There must be some sort of fix in for Kings Landing.  I can't believe that just the Tyrell forces will be enough to stop the High Sparrow. Particularly now that the High Sparrow appears to have convinced the King that what he's doing is ultimately for everyone's benefit.

I'm guessing the battle for the slave cities won't be much of a battle.  I would assume when that many Dothraki show up at your gates with the Dragon Lady at the fore, you open them.

Next episode is episode 6, if the season follows previous form, the massive expansive holy shit moments should take place in episode 8.

Well.  There it is.

Offline GodSlayer

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Re: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread
« Reply #649 on: Today at 11:19:14 AM »
The Hodor thing seemed a bit lifted from A Prayer for Owen Meany

why'd I hear about that book recently? I downloaded it for some reason or other... as though it's culturally or philosophically important.
Quote from: Thomas Ligotti
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Offline mindme

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Re: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread
« Reply #650 on: Today at 11:23:07 AM »
I was unfamiliar with George R. R. Martin's work until I was reminded he wrote the amazing short story Sand Kings. What if GoT is an extension of that? My fan theory: The "game" in Game of Thrones is quite literal. Everyone is a simulation in a computer game in the future. Hence Jon Snow dies and sees nothing. The only non-simulations are Little Finger and Varis. They're real people in the game playing against each other.

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Offline GodSlayer

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Re: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread
« Reply #651 on: Today at 11:26:49 AM »
I was unfamiliar with George R. R. Martin's work until I was reminded he wrote the amazing short story Sand Kings. What if GoT is an extension of that? My fan theory: The "game" in Game of Thrones is quite literal. Everyone is a simulation in a computer game in the future. Hence Jon Snow dies and sees nothing. The only non-simulations are Little Finger and Varis. They're real people in the game playing against each other.

that would explain why they're both kinda inept dweeby characters in a world mostly based around more direct forms of power than game theory intellect.
Quote from: Thomas Ligotti
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Offline stonesean

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Re: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread
« Reply #652 on: Today at 11:59:12 AM »
I was unfamiliar with George R. R. Martin's work until I was reminded he wrote the amazing short story Sand Kings. What if GoT is an extension of that? My fan theory: The "game" in Game of Thrones is quite literal. Everyone is a simulation in a computer game in the future. Hence Jon Snow dies and sees nothing. The only non-simulations are Little Finger and Varis. They're real people in the game playing against each other.

that would explain why they're both kinda inept dweeby characters in a world mostly based around more direct forms of power than game theory intellect.

It's not for those reasons, but I am reasonably sure that Littlefinger and Varys are two of the characters who are certain to survive this entire tale.
Well.  There it is.

Offline GodSlayer

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Re: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread
« Reply #653 on: Today at 12:22:09 PM »
I was unfamiliar with George R. R. Martin's work until I was reminded he wrote the amazing short story Sand Kings. What if GoT is an extension of that? My fan theory: The "game" in Game of Thrones is quite literal. Everyone is a simulation in a computer game in the future. Hence Jon Snow dies and sees nothing. The only non-simulations are Little Finger and Varis. They're real people in the game playing against each other.

that would explain why they're both kinda inept dweeby characters in a world mostly based around more direct forms of power than game theory intellect.

It's not for those reasons, but I am reasonably sure that Littlefinger and Varys are two of the characters who are certain to survive this entire tale.

is it their deus ex machina properties? they're so mysteriously clever and manage to concoct off-stage plots so effectively with their indefinite number of allies that they can justify almost any plot twist a writer might want to bring into the mix?
Quote from: Thomas Ligotti
"One cringes to hear scientists cooing over the universe or any part thereof like schoolgirls over-heated by their first crush.

Offline mindme

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Re: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread
« Reply #654 on: Today at 12:31:08 PM »
Something about Little Finger and Varys. They're different and "move" through the game differently. Something about them makes them seem like old rivals. Not quite enemies but close enough. Leads me to think either they're human players in a simulation or they're Tolkien like "Istari maiar". Sent to kind of tweek and watch. Little Finger has gone rogue. (My joke is the R. R. in George R. R. Martin is latin for "Tolkien-esque".)
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Online Harry Black

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Re: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread
« Reply #655 on: Today at 12:58:37 PM »
I was unfamiliar with George R. R. Martin's work until I was reminded he wrote the amazing short story Sand Kings. What if GoT is an extension of that? My fan theory: The "game" in Game of Thrones is quite literal. Everyone is a simulation in a computer game in the future. Hence Jon Snow dies and sees nothing. The only non-simulations are Little Finger and Varis. They're real people in the game playing against each other.
That better not be it, because thats literally one of my shelf plots Im working towards.
Edit- Shit. Is that how Littlefinger got to Castle Black so fast?

 

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