Topic: SGU Minecraft Sever - Project Images and Discussion Thread

[Zytheran]

Current status of Skeptiville:

1 = free spot
2 = free spot
3 = Crowskie
4 = Anarchist Bunny
5 = Meeyola

A few stacks of glowstone from Loki would go a long way towards lighting up the south east quadrant

See what I can do tonight..

[Mystical Atheist]

I've been thinking that posting a tour of the server on youtube would be a good idea.  Leadcarbonate did that for the last server (we miss you buddy!);  unfortunately those vids have been taken down.  On the plus side there are some pics of the original server (ah, memories); You can find them on the first post of this thread.  There were some awesome builds on that server - shame the map file was lost.

Anyhoo, with the multiverse plugin we are pretty spread out and I just don't know where everything is.  Actually, I've never even been to the Keppler map!  I'm new to fraps and video editing but it seems pretty straight forward.  If you know of a cool build post it here - tell me which map and the coords.  If anyone else wants to do this let me know - we can coordinate, maybe do the tour together.  Also, if you want to give the tour of your own build that would be awsome;  you can lead me/whoever is recording around and explain everything.  This would be better if you have a mic so we can record you talking, but in-game chat will work as well.

My hope is that this will drum up some more interest in our server with the SGU fanbase;  Also, we may introduce some minecrafters to the SGU podcast!

If this goes well I may want to do an LP (Let's Play) of a challenge map.  I would much prefer to partner up with someone, preferably more, and we would have to be on voice.  I figure we would just schedule one day a week to play for a few hours at a time and record.   We could also do teams, with more than one perspective being recorded;  I think this would be more fun/interesting than the every-steve-for-himself approach we have taken with previous challenge maps.  We could talk about the most recent podcast and anything that may be going on in the forums;  also, minecraft!  Does anyone think this is a good idea?

P.S. Z, I could really use that glowstone - I'm almost out.  I promise it won't leave Skeptiville!  Or, if you feel better about it, you could put the SHIS2 map back up and I could harvest glowstone there myself - that feels a bit less cheaty to me anyway.

[Rai]

I think the Multiverse is a bit too much.

 I did like it very much on the very first server that we had a central base and we branched out from it towards all directions with small builds and megaconstructions. It was big, chaotic and ever-expanding. Now, we have multiple maps with scattered builds and megaconstructions, without all the "historical layers" and emotional attachment.

I founded the SGU Commune on the first map with Sordid. It started out as a hole in the ground, then it was expanded with the grove, the pub, the commons area, the train station, the mines and with everything else. It was an organic development in a limited space to which practically everyone contributed, and I think it turned out amazingly well.

I think we should try to settle into one map. Keep the multiverses for extreme constructions and challenges, but have a main, central world. We could start a new one for that purpose, and integrate it with the let's play idea to follow how the SGU Commune V2. evolves.

[Mystical Atheist]

Okay, you've just blown my mind.  It's one of those things where you never think of it but when someone points it out it seems so obvious.  So thanks! 

So, on the mindcrack server, if you want to explore territory with new content you just go to an unexplored part of the map - they have a rail hub in the nether for fast travel.  On the original server this wasn't possible because LC was hosting it himself and had bandwidth constraints.  With beastnode we haven't yet had to limit the size of a map.

This is definitely something to consider, though at this point we have all put so much work into mega-projects scattered across different maps it will be hard to give up.  On the other hand, it always makes me a bit nervous committing to a big project when I know the map could be gone in a month or two.  If we do this I think we should resolve to keep the same map indefinitely - years even.  When we want to explore new content, we set out for un-spawned chunks.

This doesn't mean we need to give up multiverse (though it does play hell with the nether), but maybe it's not a good idea to spawn a new world every time there is an update - we really are all scattered about, which was part of the motivation for the Skeptiville project - create a space where we could build together.  If this idea picks up speed we have to decide which worlds to get rid of.  NemorisCrux is the newest world, so I'm inclined to make that our homeworld (not the least of which is because I built the infrastructure for Skeptiville there).  I have an unfinished mega-build on gliese581d (the mushroom tower over the borehole) that I would hate to loose, but if it helps the community I'll give it up.  Some things could probably be cut n' pasted to Nemoris.

It may also make sense to get a second server for challenge maps, that way the primary build world has a dedicated server - and the nether would work right!  Of course, this would eliminate the whole export/import issue entirely.  Maybe when a challenge map is finished I can shoot the map over to Z so that the victory monument can be copy/pasted into the build world.

So here is my take on this:

1. Keep multiverse but pare down the number of maps.
2. Have only one core map for building and exploring which is permanent (I vote NemorisCrux)
3. Have challenge maps that are temporary, but may stay up for months after they are beaten for resource extraction to designated zones like Skeptiville.

OR

1. Get rid of multiverse
2. Dedicate the server to NemorisCrux (or some other map), which will give it a functional nether.
3. Get a second server for challenge maps (some of which have nether content that multiverse prevents us from accessing).

Doing this would also make all of the import/export restrictions much simpler to deal with (or eliminate the issue entirely).  If you want to do the whole start from scratch survival thing you only need to travel out to new areas of the map and bring nothing with you.

I'm a bit attached to my older builds, but if they had all been done on one map to begin with I would have nothing to loose.  Remember, the only reason we "needed" a new map back in the days of the original server was because we couldn't go beyond 1000 blocks from spawn (this was for bandwidth issues).  If that map had been hosted on beastnode or elsewhere we might still be playing on it.

I would be willing to pay for and maintain the challenge server (though I will need help from Z as I don't have a clue )  Beastnode seems pretty cheap, especially considering the level of activity we see.  I can't see it costing more than $10 a month, and that is only if we get lots of skepti-peeps interested in the challenge maps.

Thoughts?

[Mystical Atheist]

Also, and this is very important:

Before we do anything, I want to record a full tour of the maps we are eliminating to preserve for posterity.  There are some cool builds there.  It may also be a nice idea to post the map files so that we can download them and explore them in single player mode.

[Rai]

I am baffled and humbled by the size and scale of Skeptiville and the effort it took to create its infrastructure, I have one big issue with it: It is not an integral part of the map. I would very much prefer a main base that utilises the geography and is an organic part of its surroundings. While the appeal of a flat, delineated space is obvious, it takes out the randomness that makes both Minecraft and real life amazing.

But that's just me. Most of what I built are mostly relatively small-scale and historically inspired (the viking longhouse or the crannóg, for example), which obviously influences my preferences. Not that I don't have a huge skyscraper in the planning phases for Skeptiville...

[Mystical Atheist]

yeah, I hear what you are saying about that.  The whole reason it is cut off was my attempt to create a space where import rules didn't apply - but that meant it had to be separate from the rest of the map so that it didn't "contaminate" it or whatever .  If we go down to one map the import/export issue is null and Skeptiville could be integrated more into the rest of the map.

As to it's flatness, yes it is a bit plain;  this is the result of trying to create a space where everyone has an equal share of the terrain.  It certainly doesn't have to be our only settlement - just one of our more urban ones.

[Zytheran]

OK, juts back from a few days away. Few Q's

Do people want the nether for the material, the adventure or the fast travel?
If people want fast travel we have the portal system I'm endeavouring to get working and the the direct warp functions that can be added at the drop of a hat. (that's what I use to get to particular locations when doing admin stuff, there's a pile of named warp locations) there is also a way of making portals cost money which is earnt via the built in economy we haven't been using if we want.

Re old maps: Firstly, I have back ups of all the worlds that can be made available on a world by world basis for single player use. Only downside is size, some are a few hundred MB's. I probably have room on my google docs account.

Old structures..in theory I can migrate large chunks of say Gliese 581g (so, the built up town area) from one world to another. I don't what the limit is for WorldEdit however this may well be possible. issue will be non matching edges. Copying over buildings is no problem, I have tested this and it works, just an issue with mines below as many go under other peoples stuff.

Preferred worlds: Nemoris Crux for the simple reason it supports every feature in the latest build.

Overall dynamics of multiple worlds, yep, this will be an issue with this sort of game where worlds need to be rebuilt to get new features working exactly as designed. I have no idea how to develop a solution apart from cut/paste stuff from one world to another.

[Thespis]

If we pare down to just Nemoris Crux, can I go get my stuff from Kepler (I think) Gliese 581d and bring it over or are we still not supposed to bring anything back and forth from Nemoris Crux?

Also, I really don't like how nothing grows unless someone is around. I haven't been on the server in weeks, checked in last night to find none of my crops have grown because my treehouse is not near the chunks where most people are. I guess there's nothing that can be done about that. It's just annoying.

[Mystical Atheist]

I like the idea of copying builds to one map.  I know the edges won't match, but that is a project in and of itself.  If you were to transport the walled village from gliese581g to NemorisCrux (preferably a large plains biome) I would be willing to integrate the edges - I built the damned wall, a bit of strategic dirt placement shouldn't be as much work as all of that.  The process of world consolidation would take weeks, but I think having all of our "history" as Rai calls it in one world would be nice.  As to underground stuff - if you build a mine system under someone else's house, well, you know, derp.  Still, I think we should plan on pasting these things into unoccupied areas of the map (like Skeptiville).

Thespis, if we do this whole consolidation thing then the import/export restrictions become null;  You should be able to bring over anything you want - we can probably relocate your entire build.  Being on one map would also reduce your problem with things not growing when you are away.

(An advantage to having one world would be that we could get a map to see where the hell everything is - Though it may be possible to simply download the world and make a map in single-player; I'm not sure how all of that works).

As to spawning new worlds to get new content - I'm not sure that is necessary.  If you go to a part of the map that has not been visited, the chunks are formed at that moment, new content and all.  I've seen this in LPs where players go to new areas for this very reason, because the new content only appears in newly spawned chunks.  I've seen very new content on maps that are months old, predating that content.

In regards to the nether and fast travel, I suppose it is a matter of aesthetics.  For me what makes a game fun is not only what you can do but what you can't.  The teleport/portal system makes sense with the multiverse mod.  With a single world it just seems like cheating.  Using the nether for fast travel involves the expenditure of effort and some risk for that reward (paying to use a portal may be a good alternative, but it shouldn't be too cheap - say a gold bar or a diamond).  The teleport system also makes the world seem smaller than it really is; It reminds me of when "warp to zero" was introduced to EveOnline.  A galaxy of over 5000 star systems (now about 7000 if you include "whiskey space") suddenly became much smaller because you could move through a system in a few seconds instead of a few minutes.  I liked some aspects of this feature, but the incredible shrinking galaxy was not one of them.

I certainly like some of the non-vanilla aspects of our server - locking chests for example.  But as the saying goes, just because we can do something doesn't mean we should.  And as for challenge maps, I'm pretty locked in to getting a separate server.  Most of these maps are designed around vanilla minecraft, and having creeper damage turned off for them is just cheaty as hell

That said, we have only heard from the four of us on this issue - I'm hoping more people leave some feedback.  This thread has received more than 50 views since my last post, and only Z and Thespis have responded, and Rai before that.  Does anyone else have an opinion?  I'm particularly interested in hearing from the peeps that have stopped playing - what do we need to do to lure you back?

TLDR;  Condensing the server to a single map, with builds from other maps edited in,  would improve the player experience and foster a greater sense of community and history.  Also, Bukkit is cool but maybe we should be more judicious in how much of it we use. 

[Zytheran]

OK, email sent out to all registered players.

Cupla points.. creeper damage can be turned on by a world by world basis.
In fact every feature I think can be adjusted this way, just makes it complicated for remembering what works where, and a pile of tricky editing for me.

Spawning stuff, yep new stuff will spawn in new areas however in existing areas new stuff and creatures won't spawn as it uses the old rules for that area. (I think)

Mapping - Last time I checked the mapping software still doesn't work with the latest version so we won't get a map of a new world with all the stuff copied in.

[Rai]

I would prefer having the Nether as a means of fast travel, teleporting just makes things too easy.

An Idea I had is to have a pristine, new world as the new core and a secondary, museum world, maybe even in Superflat, where we would put past builds.

[NekoNinja]

I'm particularly interested in hearing from the peeps that have stopped playing - what do we need to do to lure you back?

I'm quite tempted by the let's play idea. XD I was wanting to do one with a group in the past, but it never really went anywhere. I've been really trying to write recently. Just started a novel, and it's very time consuming. I don't really have much time for much else... I haven't even been getting on ragnarok much... >.>

I'd be potentially interested in any group projects in which we are on at the same time working on it. What I enjoyed about minecraft the most is the social aspect of it.

[Guillermo]

I haven't logged in, because I am involved in a lot of stuff IRL. I haven't even finished Mass Effect yet, and I started playing when it was released. Once, I get some time for MC I'll get back.

Multiple worlds is not really necessary if we have a large enough map with plenty of biomes.  I like having the Nether.

[Mystical Atheist]

.. creeper damage can be turned on by a world by world basis.
In fact every feature I think can be adjusted this way, just makes it complicated for remembering what works where, and a pile of tricky editing for me.

I. Did. Not. Know. This.  Nice!  That is definitely something to consider.  I'll say this about keeping everything straight:  if we only have two or three worlds (active world, museum world & challenge map) things would be much easier to remember. 

That said, I am concerned that if we try to make an LP of a challenge map things will end up going down "off camera" if the map stays up 24-7.  This is why I would like to have a set time that we would play it once week, maybe 3 or 4 hours.  After that time maybe the map could be locked or temporarily taken down.  Of course, we could still have a non-LP challenge map.

I would prefer having the Nether as a means of fast travel, teleporting just makes things too easy.

Aye.  And if we had a toll-portal system I think it would end up pointless once villager trading is implemented - it will be too easy to get the materials to trade for what you need to use the portal.  Then again, we could make portal use cost a diamond block or something crazy like that, heh.  Still, I prefer nether travel - I think portals should be reserved for travel between worlds.  Actually, I would prefer it if portals were the only way to travel between worlds.

An Idea I had is to have a pristine, new world as the new core and a secondary, museum world, maybe even in Superflat, where we would put past builds.

That could work, though if we do that we should wait until the next update for a new world.  As to the museum world, I would be okay with a superflat as long as we can keep that map set to peaceful - slimes have an orgy on that map type otherwise.  I wouldn't mind keeping NemorisCrux as the museum world though as well - it would also mean a bit less copy/pasting.

Also, a youtube tour of our builds could stand in for saving some of this stuff.  I think it would be too much to try and save everything.

If we do this we have to make a decision:  Do we keep this new world indefinitely?  Or do we keep it for a time, then move a selection of builds into the museum and start fresh?  Maybe we could commit to keeping the core world for six months or even a year before we start fresh; once or twice a year we would have to do some housekeeping, moving stuff into the museum etc.  Of course we could copy stuff to the museum when the builder says it is finished, that way it doesn't need to be done all at once.