Topic: Episode #59

[azinyk]

Some American beliefs equivalent to "fan death":

 - You can catch a cold by being cold
 - Eating cows or pigs is okay, but eating horses or dogs is disgusting
 - Drugs are instantly addictive and invariably deadly

Just a comment on the drug myth: as Steve mentioned in this episode, sometimes society's leaders want people do something, like recycle or get vaccinated, for genuinely good reasons, but those reasons aren't seen as compelling enough, so they hype it up to increase compliance.  In that sense, the drug myth isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[slammermx]

I lived in Montana where it's 40 below for over two weeks in a row and as far as I can remember nobody got deathly sick. But listening to my mother-in law you'd think just stepping out into a 70 degree night you're going to to get a fever and die. :?

No matter what I say she still thinks that cold weather equals getting sick. :wink:

[Joe Shmoe]

We should probably change the common name of the 'common cold'.

[JohnMaddox]

- Eating cows or pigs is okay, but eating horses or dogs is disgusting

This is off-topic but I have always thought it interesting that English has words like beef, mutton, and pork for the animal meat our culture consumes.  This allows one to avoid saying "cow meat", "sheep meat" or "pig meat" perhaps allowing some cognitive distance between the food and its ultimate source.

This verbal sleight of hand is unavailable with animals we tend not to eat like horse, dog, or goat.

Does this linguistic quirk exist in other languages and cultures?  

-John

[JD]

That's why I always make sure to bring up how tasty the innocence is when I'm chomping on a burger.

[mindme]

I lived in Montana where it's 40 below for over two weeks in a row and as far as I can remember nobody got deathly sick. But listening to my mother-in law you'd think just stepping out into a 70 degree night you're going to to get a fever and die. :?

No matter what I say she still thinks that cold weather equals getting sick. :wink:

My Korean friend with her three year old boy, she just bundles that kid against even the slightest draft. I point out to her when I was a child in Montreal we'd love more than to splash in icy slush water all night, without regard to time. We'd trudge back into the house no worse for wear.

It's not a Korean thing, of course, Many first time mothers are really paranoid these days about everything. Even kids toys are now made with antibiotic plastic or some such rot. My cousin, she would boil all the kids toys before they played with them.

I dunno, when did society start to stigmatize people for losing just one kid?

[mindme]

Does this linguistic quirk exist in other languages and cultures?  

-John

In Korean it's "so gogi" (cow meat), "dweji gogi" (pig meat), "dak gogi" (chicken meat), and "mool gogi" (water meat... ie seafood). I'll give you two guesses which word is Korean for meat.

Oddly many English loan words are used on Korean menus these days. Dak gogi is now "chi kin" and "dweji gogi" seems to be "pong" (Korean has an R of sorts and a K but Koreans would go into brain lock up if you put them right after each other).

Pork: Middle English, from Old French porc, pig, from Latin.

I suspect menus have simply influenced our use of these terms.

[rebecca]

Some American beliefs equivalent to "fan death":

 - You can catch a cold by being cold
 - Eating cows or pigs is okay, but eating horses or dogs is disgusting
 - Drugs are instantly addictive and invariably deadly

Well, not quite. The fan death issue is a classic example of an urban legend that has been passed along with an incredible amount of success. It doesn't stem out of any previously understood "wisdom," it's just a scary story with a slight hint of believability. Catching a cold by being cold could at worst be described as an old wives' tale. Eating one kind of animal as opposed to another is just a common characteristic of a particular culture -- it's hardly surprising or the stuff of myth to note that people tend to not eat the animals they feel a kinship with. The idea of drugs being instantly addictive and deadly is a general belief that may be held by a subset of people all over the world, and not a specific urban legend story.

A more accurate comparison to the fan death stories would be the "stealing the kidneys" legend, or any one of hundreds of e-mail forwards found on snopes.com.

[slammermx]

In spanish beef is called "carne" which means flesh or meat. Beef sounds a million times better. Can you imagine the catch-phrase "Where's the Flesh or where's the meat" it sounds like a cheesy porno title. :shock:

[JD]

I have that porn sir, and it is the least bit cheesey!  

Superlative acting, I tells ya.

[azinyk]

The problem with the stolen kidneys is that it's a sort of like a ghost story, but it doesn't encourage people to change their behaviour (who really avoids strangers because they think their kidneys will be stolen?).  In the examples I gave, people do something strange (like turning off the fan) for a bogus reason.

The other criterion that my myths meet is that they're widely believed, and rarely questioned.  Lots of people laugh at the kidney story, but hardly anyone challenges the horse meat taboo.

I think we both came up with independent criteria, based on what we thought was the most important aspect of the fan death story.

"Don't talk on your mobile phone at the gas station" might satisfy everyone.

[azinyk]

My guess: 9 of hearts.  I used the tried-and-true prophetic technique of making the prediction after the event

[rebecca]

The problem with the stolen kidneys is that it's a sort of like a ghost story, but it doesn't encourage people to change their behaviour (who really avoids strangers because they think their kidneys will be stolen?).  In the examples I gave, people do something strange (like turning off the fan) for a bogus reason.

The other criterion that my myths meet is that they're widely believed, and rarely questioned.  Lots of people laugh at the kidney story, but hardly anyone challenges the horse meat taboo.

I think we both came up with independent criteria, based on what we thought was the most important aspect of the fan death story.

"Don't talk on your mobile phone at the gas station" might satisfy everyone.

On the contrary, like most urban legends (indeed it can be considered almost a prerequisite of being an urban legend), the kidney story had a moral: the way it is usually told, it concerns the evils of going out to clubs drinking too much, and/or having a loose lifestyle.

[mindme]

The fan death story, aside from a few highly educated Korean doctors, seems totally pervasive in this culture. I've never met one Korean that doesn't believe fans can kill. And no argument can sway them:

- no one dies of fan death outside of Korea
- I have two fans blowing on my face all summer and I've not died
- there's no scientific basis for any of the claims

Korea is an extremely hierarchical society and arguments from authority (doctors, parents, media, government) have incredible weight here.  (The school is on fire. No one is calling the fire department or evacuating. Why? asks the foreign teacher. "The boss isn't here and none of us have the authority to call the fire department or close the school.")

Further, Korea is one big family. Everyone is a Kim or a Park or Lee practically. Everyone is older brother or aunt. And family is everything in Korea. There's no social safety net. A Korean without a family is cut off from everything. One may as well ask a Korean to cut off his/her right hand as to go against the wishes and beliefs of his/her family.

So, if someone in your family tells you fans are nuthin' but deadly, you believe it. How could you possibly believe a family member would lie to you? If they're lying about this. what else are they lying about?

[Ariel]

I forget where I read/heard/saw this bit of trivia, but the story of the different words in English for an animal and that animal's meat can be traced to the Norman conquest of England. The conquered English farmers generally raised the animals for wealthier Norman French consumers. Therefore, a "food" animal was called by its English name while it was alive, but its Norman French name after it was dead and sauced on a plate.  

- Eating cows or pigs is okay, but eating horses or dogs is disgusting

This is off-topic but I have always thought it interesting that English has words like beef, mutton, and pork for the animal meat our culture consumes.  This allows one to avoid saying "cow meat", "sheep meat" or "pig meat" perhaps allowing some cognitive distance between the food and its ultimate source.

This verbal sleight of hand is unavailable with animals we tend not to eat like horse, dog, or goat.

Does this linguistic quirk exist in other languages and cultures?  

-John