Topic: F*** **U GRRM!!! [SPOLIERS for ADWD]

[Paddyjack]

Yes. He is almost defenately coming back. He is the azor ahai   Go back and read the Melisandre chapter when she look in the fires for the prince that was promised. There are other clues as well.

However Melisandre has been wrong before in her interpretations. The girl on the road was not Arya, and there are a few other examples. And if I remember well, she thinks that Stannis is that PwwP because "Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone" meaning his life at Dragonstone.

However to me it could mean Aegon VI, who everyone thinks dead and so would be "reborn" (he will declare himself at Storm's End)  in war (smoke and salt) in Westeros, and as a Targaryen, controls dragons. And he was born the same day as a comet IIRC.

[PANTS!]

Yes. He is almost defenately coming back. He is the azor ahai   Go back and read the Melisandre chapter when she look in the fires for the prince that was promised. There are other clues as well.

However Melisandre has been wrong before in her interpretations. The girl on the road was not Arya, and there are a few other examples. And if I remember well, she thinks that Stannis is that PwwP because "Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone" meaning his life at Dragonstone.

However to me it could mean Aegon VI, who everyone thinks dead and so would be "reborn" (he will declare himself at Storm's End)  in war (smoke and salt) in Westeros, and as a Targaryen, controls dragons. And he was born the same day as a comet IIRC.

Heh - Right you are.  And she is wrong about how she interprets seeing Jon.  She ask to see The Prince Who Was Promised, and the fires show her Jon.  Then she tells the fires, no I said show me Stannis, you know, the prince who was promised.  Then she rationalizes away that she keeps seeing Jon.  Its a pretty amusing sequence - were it not for all the bleeding she does.

[T.A.P.O.R.]

Goddamn it I just got past the stabbity stabbity bit.
not happy. That was my favourite character after Arya.

As for the prince who was promised, I think that is going to be Griff from the river boat.

[Jack R.]

I just finished ADWD.  I'm not too worried about the stabby bit yet.  Melissandre is nearby, and I think she should be able to Dondarrion-ize our lad.  I mean, if a fraud like Thoros could pull it off...

That could actually simplify a few things.  The wildlings and Melissandre seem to have taken a liking to him, and would be ready to put him on the throne at winterfell, and take over management of the Wall. 

[T.A.P.O.R.]

I just finished ADWD.  I'm not too worried about the stabby bit yet.  Melissandre is nearby, and I think she should be able to Dondarrion-ize our lad.  I mean, if a fraud like Thoros could pull it off...

That could actually simplify a few things.  The wildlings and Melissandre seem to have taken a liking to him, and would be ready to put him on the throne at winterfell, and take over management of the Wall.

Did you forget who wrote the book?

Also, there are more than two candidates for the prince of fire.
So I am not counting my chickens just yet.

[Jack R.]

Well, at this rate, we should find out in about 3 or 4 years.

[T.A.P.O.R.]

I'm listening to it for the 2nd time now and I think I'm 1 Jon chapter away from his seeming demise.

There's a scene where he goes to the red woman and she asks to touch ghost.
Ghost is placid and does appear not recognize Jon.

This I think is what had given the book nerds an incling that he's going to be reborn.
I think that she's done some magic on Jon, without him being aware of it.

[T.A.P.O.R.]

turns out I was more like five away from the final Jon chapter.
Still have NFI what's really going on, but there is mention of red lights from Melisandre's rooms in the chapter before Jon gets it.

Also, for some reason, his wolf is absent when he dies.
Will go through the novel again on a Jon only reading, see if I can get the flow.

[Strudel]

He locked ghost in his quarters cause he wouldn't stop barking and snapping at people, Jon included. Much like Grey Wind behaved before the red wedding.
You'd think they'd know to listen to their wolves by now...

[T.A.P.O.R.]

He locked ghost in his quarters cause he wouldn't stop barking and snapping at people, Jon included. Much like Grey Wind behaved before the red wedding.
You'd think they'd know to listen to their wolves by now...

I didn't think that was the last chapter. 

[Kessdawg]

Holy crap I'm just seeing this thread now.   Yeah that chapter pissed me off.  The one consistant thing between Robb's and Jon's "deaths" has been that the wolves were locked away.  Maybe that is going to continue?  As long as the children have their wolves with them they are somewhat safe?

[DeepGlue]

Sansa's been alive for quite a while now, and her wolf's been dead since book 1!

[T.A.P.O.R.]

Sansa's been alive for quite a while now, and her wolf's been dead since book 1!

All men must die.

[Neutral Milk]

Sansa's been alive for quite a while now, and her wolf's been dead since book 1!

Jesus, spoiler tags!

(click to show/hide)

[Moloch]

One other good piece of evidence for Jon being reborn is the connection with ADWD's prologue.

The prologue is basically there to serve as a lesson for the reader in what happens to a skin changer when they die. The OBE, the need to find a nearby body, the ability to continue living in a new body etc. Melisandre repeatedly tells Jon that he must keep Ghost close to him. The reader assumes that she sees physical confrontation ahead and wants Jon to have Ghost around to help, but in reality she wants Ghost nearby so that when Jon dies he can inhabit Ghost's body easily. This is my interpretation anyway, so far all of Martin's prologues have had a much clearer connection to the narrative than ADWD's if you ignore this point.