Author Topic: Episode #350  (Read 2055 times)

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Offline kb

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Re: Episode #350
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2012, 02:38:03 PM »
Oh that wasn't me. That was kb.

NO! That was My Litte Pony! :)

I don't know if I can believe until I understand.

Do you belive that you understand, lets say, quantum physics?  ;D 
"And I'm also one of these people. I don't really care about being right you know I just care about success." - Steve Jobs, Triumph of the Nerds

Offline seaotter

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Re: Episode #350
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2012, 04:15:15 PM »
Oh that wasn't me. That was kb.


NO! That was My Litte Pony! :)

I don't know if I can believe until I understand.


Do you belive that you understand, lets say, quantum physics?  ;D

 ;D http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman

I believe that there weird behavior we call qm, but as to believing the underlying mechanism, I don't, and since to my knowledge we don't know the underlying mechanism if there is one, nobody believes it yet.
"There is no use trying," said Alice; "one can't believe impossible things." Lewis Carroll

Offline Skip Nordenholz

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Re: Episode #350
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2012, 11:42:17 PM »
For the moon issue why couldn't have the object that hit the earth formed in the similar orbit to the earth, I have even read somewhere that for the moon to be created the way it is that the initial collision would have had to have been quite slow which would be consistent with a collision with an object in a very similar orbit.

Offline Skip Nordenholz

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Re: Episode #350
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2012, 11:46:26 PM »
I don't know if I can believe until I understand.

If you don't understand then your position should be one of neither belief or disbelief. To disbelief because you don't understand is to argue that reality is in someway constrained by you understanding abilities.

Offline seaotter

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Re: Episode #350
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2012, 04:43:16 PM »
I'm agnostic on things I don't understand.
"There is no use trying," said Alice; "one can't believe impossible things." Lewis Carroll

Offline Uncle Marty

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Re: Episode #350
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2012, 09:16:39 AM »
I live in Tennessee and I wrote my state rep last year when the  "teach the controversy" bill first came up.  His response is below. This is why we can't have nice things.

Mr. [Rockhead], Thank you for your email.  I did not get too many regarding this particular bill. Sir, I chose to vote for this bill because I believe it will allow teachers to teach any and all theories of creation.  We put them out there and allow students to think about them.  Once upon a time we adults taught that the world was flat.   David Alexander

Science teachers teach science, not creation. If you must, put those alternate theories in another class. Giving children the idea that there is debate about evolution being scientifically accepted is just wrong, inside a science class.

Putting aside the common misconception that people ever believed the earth was flat (this seems to have become popular during the 19th century, they loved to exaggerate the middle ages), science is a best-effort service. Some of what we are teaching today will be improved upon, but science should not be blamed for this. The evidence at the time points to a theory being the most likely explanation. An example of this is Newtonian physics. Special relativity corrected some minor problems with it, but no one today thinks less of any pre-Einstein person for finding Newtonian physics accurate.

/stuff you already knew. With this guy as a state rep, I'm beginning to think Voltaire was right about democracy. All funding towards an enlightened monarchy!

Offline Hekatombaion

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Re: Episode #350
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2012, 07:51:03 AM »
There is a really strong push to act like disbelief equals anything that is not belief though- or rather that's how people try to use language in general for opposing terms. Obviously Black and White only offer a false dichotomy of color choices (or even just brightness,) but unless you're dealing with people that know how to use formal logic in conversation it's not always so easy to get that point across to them.

Offline donmac

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Re: Episode #350
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2012, 12:00:45 PM »
Putting aside the common misconception that people ever believed the earth was flat (this seems to have become popular during the 19th century, they loved to exaggerate the middle ages)

Isn't say that it's a misconception that "people ever believed the earth was flat" a bit of a hasty generalization?  While it is a myth to say that everyone in the Middle Ages or earlier eras believed the earth was flat, it's also just as false to say that no one believed the earth was flat.

Much like evolution vs. creationism, belief that the earth was a sphere seems to have been very common in more educated people, while belief that it was a flat disc seems to have been found in less educated or merely religiously educated people (biblical descriptions of the earth are most consistent with the flat disc view, with Jerusalem thought to be located at the center of the flat circle).  However, since the educated group were also the scholars who wrote any books that survived until present time, it can give the false impression that basically everyone then believed in a spherical earth.  But even in the scholarly ranks, there were still some who argued for a flat earth (ex. Lactantius and Cosmas Indicopleustes) so, even if that was a minority viewpoint in the educated ranks, it still means that not everyone believed in a spherical earth.

The only thing that's difficult to find out is when did belief in the spherical earth become commonplace with everyone and not just the educated people.

Offline Uncle Marty

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Re: Episode #350
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2012, 05:59:18 PM »
I shouldn't have said no one ever believed the world was flat, people believe even stranger things today, but people do exaggerate the ignorance of the past. Anyone who lived in a coastal city would have had easy access to layman's proof that the world is curved. The Greeks knew approximately how big a sphere the earth was millennia ago.

Offline alanevil

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Re: Episode #350
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2012, 11:43:07 AM »
But 1000 years after the Greeks figured that out we were burning people for not believing the world was flat.  We humans are, by and large, amazingly stupid.

Offline Trinoc

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Re: Episode #350
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2012, 12:39:44 PM »
But 1000 years after the Greeks figured that out we were burning people for not believing the world was flat.

Do you have any examples of this?
I'm a skeptic. Not a "skepdude". Not a "man skeptic". Just a skeptic.

 

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