Topic: Episode #343

[mkelpie]

The pronouncing of 'Bollocks' was a little off.  But hey I'm willing to let live and so should everyone else. 

As a nice addition to this and with your efforts to mix things up like q.w.b.  I want Steve to use a new term every week which replaces 'crap'.  e.g. " It's total.........Arse gravy.".  It needn't be feces based though.  Kind of like the episodes magic word.

I want to hear Steve say Wanker

[Lion_Tamarin]

Is it wrong that I use the preferred pronunciation of Oregon because I know it'll annoy the hell out of Oregon residents? Then I don't want to be right! Mwa ha ha

You're just making yourself sound ignorant.  Which I know you aren't.  So don't talk like you are.

[rebecca]

Is it wrong that I use the preferred pronunciation of Oregon because I know it'll annoy the hell out of Oregon residents? Then I don't want to be right! Mwa ha ha

You're just making yourself sound ignorant.  Which I know you aren't.  So don't talk like you are.

Wow. Rude, and you have no idea how language works. Quite a catch.

[rebecca]

As a southerner let me commend you on finally learning correct pronunciation.

For instance, during my time in Seattle I had no trouble saying "Oregon" the way the natives prefer.

Anyway, linguistics. Fun stuff.

Does that include pronouncing "always" as if it had NO VOWELS AT ALL? My wife is from there and it drives me uking finsane...  "Ullwizz"

Ha, I'm not sure, actually! That's not one that was on my radar. I know I say it with all the vowels but I'm about to call my mom . . . I'll have her say it and report back.

UPDATE: Just got off the phone. My mom says it like "Ull-ways" which I guess is similar to how I say it. Then she went on a rant about people in our home town not enunciating enough, "but just the idiots. Not everyone." Oh, mom.

[quirk3k]

I used to think that people who said 'ax' instead of 'ask' were ignorant. It's a common perception in the affluent suburban communities of Detroit. Then I learned the history behind this varient.

Thinking someone sounds ignorant because they are using unfashionable pronunciations is… well… ignorant.

[seaotter]

Crazy talk! Different =ignorant!

[rebecca]

I used to think that people who said 'ax' instead of 'ask' were ignorant. It's a common perception in the affluent suburban communities of Detroit. Then I learned the history behind this varient.

Thinking someone sounds ignorant because they are using unfashionable pronunciations is… well… ignorant.

Indeed, and it's not just pronunciations but also grammar. Elizabeth Little knocked this one out of the park a few weeks ago. I'm lucky to be white . . . often in the US when you hear someone complaining about "improper English," it's blatant racism. I used to feel similarly to the way you felt, assuming that "ax," "bafroom," and even pronouncing the word "aunt" like "ahhnt," all things that only my black friends did, were a sign of ignorance. Irony!

[benwildeboer]

Just to respond to the discussion on science standards & science education:

I agree that there's a lot of work to be done regarding science education in this country, but I was bothered by the narrative that was developing in the conversation during this episode. In the discussion statements were made such as:

• "Teachers don’t quite grasp how science works."
• "Real science education doesn’t even really begin until the 7th grade. In grade schools they get virtually nothing."

My problem with these statements isn't that they might be true, but the onus for the failure was being placed on teachers. I'd encourage you to look more deeply at the system of assessments states use to measure success or failure.

• State assessments are primarily multiple choice. For example, in Connecticut, the 8th grade science CMT includes 55 multiple choice questions and 3 open response. This isn't going to give a good indication of scientific knowledge.
• With many standards (even well written standards) comes pressure to "cover" all the standards. This takes away from time in class that might be used for student investigations and explorations. Teachers know there are relatively few standards for inquiry compared to content, so they focus on content standards first.
• In Connecticut, science is assessed in 5th, 8th, and 10th grades. Compared to language arts and math (which are assessed every year from grades 3-8 and again in 10th), science takes a back seat especially in grade school. It's not that teachers don't understand science, it's that there's little incentive to focus on science given the systemic pressures.

OK, that's long enough. I wrote more on my blog if you're interested in reading more. I do love the show and (most) of what you say. 

[RaptureMay21]

as the Oregonian sits back and watches the chaos unfold...
this is my type of Humor. with a hard west coast H. (takes a sip of pop)

[Laiyesta]

I find the Skeptical Quote of the Week in this episode very amusing, but I think that the hosts missed one nuance of the wording.

Skeptical Quote of the Week        "Feminism is best served by embracing reality, by thinking critically, and advancing rational arguments. This sloppy Newage shit-slurry of ingenuous gullibility is pure poison to the cause." - PZ Myers, Pharyngula

The word "ingenuous" was pronounced, and I assume taken, as the more-commonly used "ingenious" in the podcast.  I didn't think that made much sense, given the gist of the quote, so I checked the spelling.  Yes, my word-geekness was on target, it was in fact "ingenuous", definition below (the second applies in this case, I believe).  For mnemonic purposes, I connect this word with the word "ingenue", an innocent and/or gullible young female character (or actress specializing in parts of this type) in a play or opera.  Particularly appropriate in the case of a quote about feminism, I think.  I think the use of this word definitely adds to the quality of the quote, and I hope this correction adds to the enjoyment others take from it. :-)

ingenuous
[in-jen-yoo-uhs]
adjective
1.free from reserve, restraint, or dissimulation; candid; sincere.
2.artless; innocent; naive.
3.Obsolete . honorable or noble.

Origin:
1590–1600;  < Latin ingenuus  native, free-born, honorable, frank, equivalent to in- in-2  + gen-  (base of gignere; see ingenious) + -uus  deverbal adj. suffix; see -ous

[Swynndla]

Lake Vostok: proof positive!: "Nazis at the Center of the Earth" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2130142/

[Old Hoplite]

I used to think that people who said 'ax' instead of 'ask' were ignorant. It's a common perception in the affluent suburban communities of Detroit. Then I learned the history behind this varient.

Thinking someone sounds ignorant because they are using unfashionable pronunciations is… well… ignorant.

Indeed, and it's not just pronunciations but also grammar. Elizabeth Little knocked this one out of the park a few weeks ago. I'm lucky to be white . . . often in the US when you hear someone complaining about "improper English," it's blatant racism. I used to feel similarly to the way you felt, assuming that "ax," "bafroom," and even pronouncing the word "aunt" like "ahhnt," all things that only my black friends did, were a sign of ignorance. Irony!

Yea, but some people can take that crap too far as well:
http://www.pbs.org/speak/seatosea/americanvarieties/AAVE/hooked/

"Ebonics" as a different langauge!  That my friends is as Dr. Stve puts it:  "Crap."

[Johnny Slick]

A different language? Of course not. It's a dialect.