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Quote from: Green Ideas on Aug 15, 2012, 11:58:23 AMQuote from: Shadow Of A Doubt on Aug 15, 2012, 11:23:56 AMQuote from: Green Ideas on Aug 15, 2012, 10:44:22 AMCRAP (click to show/hide)Just a quote I like. Despite what the Brits have been saying for 200+ years, he doesn't sound like an ogre to me.QuoteThe real conquests, the only ones that do not cause regret, are those that are won over ignorance.Napoleon Bonaparte, 1797 (click to show/hide)Ya he just tried to militarily conquer the entire European continent - no biggie. (click to show/hide)...while the Brits were trying to conquer as much of the entire world as possible. Napoleon at least helped bury feudalism in much of Europe. He also started badly needed reforms in the education system, and favoured a shift from aristocracy to meritocracy in most spheres of public life. Oh, and he tried to make peace with the Brits several times. Their answer? To ally themselves against France with some of the least democratic countries in Europe. Another bit you don't mention is that after its revolution, France was attacked by all its powerful neighbours, whose leaders were horrified at the prospect of liberté, égalité, fraternité in their own countries. At least to some extent, Napoleon was merely defending his country. I'm not saying he was a saint, but he definitely was no ogre. (click to show/hide)[snark]You mean Britain in the past had an empire? I had no idea! I guess that invalidates my opinion on megalomaniacs everywhere. [/snark]You'll notice the quote you provided comes from before he started fighting the Russians and the Austrians and the Germans/Prussians and the Italians and the Spanish and the Portugese and the Turks. (And the Dutch and the Swiss and the Swedes and the Persians according to wikipedia.) He didn't just defend France but he invaded most of these places too! I wonder what all these peoples think of his European adventures and I wonder what French republicans thought about his coup to get himself declared Emperor Napolean. The Russians hated him for sure. So I think it's a bit odd to imply his reputation is down to the British conducting a 200 year smear campaign against him; and the apparent suggestion that I shouldn't think he was a war-hungry egomaniac because 150 years ago the people who ran my country were also colossal arseholes is frankly bizarre.
Quote from: Shadow Of A Doubt on Aug 15, 2012, 11:23:56 AMQuote from: Green Ideas on Aug 15, 2012, 10:44:22 AMCRAP (click to show/hide)Just a quote I like. Despite what the Brits have been saying for 200+ years, he doesn't sound like an ogre to me.QuoteThe real conquests, the only ones that do not cause regret, are those that are won over ignorance.Napoleon Bonaparte, 1797 (click to show/hide)Ya he just tried to militarily conquer the entire European continent - no biggie. (click to show/hide)...while the Brits were trying to conquer as much of the entire world as possible. Napoleon at least helped bury feudalism in much of Europe. He also started badly needed reforms in the education system, and favoured a shift from aristocracy to meritocracy in most spheres of public life. Oh, and he tried to make peace with the Brits several times. Their answer? To ally themselves against France with some of the least democratic countries in Europe. Another bit you don't mention is that after its revolution, France was attacked by all its powerful neighbours, whose leaders were horrified at the prospect of liberté, égalité, fraternité in their own countries. At least to some extent, Napoleon was merely defending his country. I'm not saying he was a saint, but he definitely was no ogre.
Quote from: Green Ideas on Aug 15, 2012, 10:44:22 AMCRAP (click to show/hide)Just a quote I like. Despite what the Brits have been saying for 200+ years, he doesn't sound like an ogre to me.QuoteThe real conquests, the only ones that do not cause regret, are those that are won over ignorance.Napoleon Bonaparte, 1797 (click to show/hide)Ya he just tried to militarily conquer the entire European continent - no biggie.
CRAP (click to show/hide)Just a quote I like. Despite what the Brits have been saying for 200+ years, he doesn't sound like an ogre to me.QuoteThe real conquests, the only ones that do not cause regret, are those that are won over ignorance.Napoleon Bonaparte, 1797
The real conquests, the only ones that do not cause regret, are those that are won over ignorance.
Quote from: Shadow Of A Doubt on Aug 15, 2012, 03:08:55 PMQuote from: Green Ideas on Aug 15, 2012, 11:58:23 AMQuote from: Shadow Of A Doubt on Aug 15, 2012, 11:23:56 AMQuote from: Green Ideas on Aug 15, 2012, 10:44:22 AMCRAP (click to show/hide)Just a quote I like. Despite what the Brits have been saying for 200+ years, he doesn't sound like an ogre to me.QuoteThe real conquests, the only ones that do not cause regret, are those that are won over ignorance.Napoleon Bonaparte, 1797 (click to show/hide)Ya he just tried to militarily conquer the entire European continent - no biggie. (click to show/hide)...while the Brits were trying to conquer as much of the entire world as possible. Napoleon at least helped bury feudalism in much of Europe. He also started badly needed reforms in the education system, and favoured a shift from aristocracy to meritocracy in most spheres of public life. Oh, and he tried to make peace with the Brits several times. Their answer? To ally themselves against France with some of the least democratic countries in Europe. Another bit you don't mention is that after its revolution, France was attacked by all its powerful neighbours, whose leaders were horrified at the prospect of liberté, égalité, fraternité in their own countries. At least to some extent, Napoleon was merely defending his country. I'm not saying he was a saint, but he definitely was no ogre. (click to show/hide)[snark]You mean Britain in the past had an empire? I had no idea! I guess that invalidates my opinion on megalomaniacs everywhere. [/snark]You'll notice the quote you provided comes from before he started fighting the Russians and the Austrians and the Germans/Prussians and the Italians and the Spanish and the Portugese and the Turks. (And the Dutch and the Swiss and the Swedes and the Persians according to wikipedia.) He didn't just defend France but he invaded most of these places too! I wonder what all these peoples think of his European adventures and I wonder what French republicans thought about his coup to get himself declared Emperor Napolean. The Russians hated him for sure. So I think it's a bit odd to imply his reputation is down to the British conducting a 200 year smear campaign against him; and the apparent suggestion that I shouldn't think he was a war-hungry egomaniac because 150 years ago the people who ran my country were also colossal arseholes is frankly bizarre. (click to show/hide)You're right - British imperialism is irrelevant to the matter, I shouldn't have brought it up, my apologies. About the smear campaign: I only said people in Britain (to clarify: obviously not all, but enough to make a difference) have been routinely calling Napoleon an ogre for more than 200 years (but I could be wrong). About the other stuff, it's my undoubtedly useless opinion that you've been fed victor's history - outside the Anglophone world the picture can be a lot more nuanced. (And I'm fine with leaving it at that - I'm sorry I started this).
There is only one Johnny Slick, and he is a son of a [redacted].
You're really good at bad ideas.
(click to show/hide)A rutabaga is a root similar to a turnip. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutabaga
Wednesday, August 15: Napoleon's diet consisted almost entirely of rutabagas and orange juice. Fact or Crap?
Thursday, August 16: Kylie Minogue launched her music career after winning the Miss Australia pageant. Fact or Crap?
Quote from: AQB24712 on Aug 16, 2012, 09:32:23 AMThursday, August 16: Kylie Minogue launched her music career after winning the Miss Australia pageant. Fact or Crap?CRAP (click to show/hide)Isn't she American?
