Author Topic: The Avengers movie  (Read 8399 times)

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Offline ting-bu-dong

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Re: The Avengers movie
« Reply #345 on: May 29, 2012, 04:19:39 PM »
To me the kind of monarchy portrayed in Thor is much like the ethics of vigilantism that other superheroes run on. Both are highly idealised and romanticised and would be/are very bad ideas in the real world.

As for peace with the Frost Giants, the idea was that obliteration as not an option, so you either get perpetual war or a peace that is difficult and requires growth beyond the warrior ethic of the Asgardians.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 04:23:18 PM by ting-bu-dong »

Offline Johnny Slick

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Re: The Avengers movie
« Reply #346 on: May 29, 2012, 04:27:31 PM »
Well, sometimes actions and necessity precede emotional growth. I could just see Loki cement a peace with the frost giants in order to advance one of his needs but at the same time justify it by saying that he could allow people to beat their swords into plowshares now. And for that he'd be reviled as a villain of the first kind, but as you imply that's more because the figures of Norse mythology are kind of dicks.
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Offline ting-bu-dong

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Re: The Avengers movie
« Reply #347 on: May 29, 2012, 05:14:44 PM »
The peace Asgard enjoys in the movie is entirely due to Odin transcending his culture and realising that notions like honor and glory only lead to endless war unless you are willing to obliterate your enemy. Thor is too privileged to have learned this lesson, and putting him on the throne before he learns it will destroy the peace with the frost giants, and it almost does when he goes to Jotunheim to investigate the break in into the treasure vault. Loki doesn't understand this either and would only pursue his own schemes whether or not they involve peace rather than the good of Asgard and Midgard. That's why he would make a poor king compared to Odin.

Offline Neon Genesis

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Re: The Avengers movie
« Reply #348 on: May 29, 2012, 05:29:02 PM »
I think they should do an Avengers movie revolving around Thor's crossdressing adventures Reasonable Doubts covered in their latest episode.

Offline Vincegamer

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Re: The Avengers movie
« Reply #349 on: May 29, 2012, 11:15:16 PM »
I didn't like how RD described the story. It's much better just to read the original (in translation) and see how Thor cons the giants.
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Offline Miisanthrope

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Re: The Avengers movie
« Reply #350 on: May 30, 2012, 02:00:46 AM »
Re Thor's adventures in drag: There is a comic book about that, I read it as a kid. A  Danish series of comics, I suspect they were called Valhalla.


ETA: Yup, Valhalla 2: Thor's Wedding

« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 02:05:30 AM by Miisanthrope »

Offline Morvis13

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Re: The Avengers movie
« Reply #351 on: May 30, 2012, 06:33:08 AM »
I could watch this forever.

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Offline David E.

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Re: The Avengers movie
« Reply #352 on: May 30, 2012, 07:20:23 AM »
I could watch this forever.




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Offline Morvis13

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Re: The Avengers movie
« Reply #353 on: May 30, 2012, 07:30:23 AM »
She could hammer me. Or the other way around.
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Online Rai

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Re: The Avengers movie
« Reply #354 on: May 30, 2012, 08:00:33 AM »
She could hammer me. Or the other way around.


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Offline Ravenhull

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Re: The Avengers movie
« Reply #355 on: May 30, 2012, 08:02:57 AM »
There is a guy who does audio shows called the Viking Home Companion. In addition to Viking themed folks and stories, he tells classic Norse mythology tales, including Freya's Wedding, done in a fun manner.

http://skaldic.com/vikingHome.htm
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Offline Halleyscomet/Wakefield

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Re: The Avengers movie
« Reply #356 on: May 30, 2012, 11:13:32 AM »
a. the planet he initially wanted to destroy (the Frost Giant planet, not Earth) was constantly at war with his, and frankly I think his plan was at least more realistic than Thor's, which seemed to be "let's keep them around and pretend to hate them because they're fun to kick around". Actually, of either of the two, I'd find the scheming, manipulative Loki much more likely to eventually forge a peace treaty with Frostgiantland than Thor.

I watched "Thor" in the company of a pagan. She spent most of the movie railing on how they got the mythology wrong. She's also former British military, and watching "Captain America" with her was also a lot of fun.

Regardless, one point that was barley touched on in the movie is that Loki tried to destroy one of the nine worlds bound together by the world tree. Destroying it would destroy balance and potentially trigger Ragnarök. What Loki was doing would have been a bit like a Cold War US President rising to power in order to launch a preemptive nuclear strike on the USSR. Loki was deliberately destroying EVERYTHING.

Offline Johnny Slick

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Re: The Avengers movie
« Reply #357 on: May 30, 2012, 11:48:30 AM »
WELL OKAY THEN MAYBE I AM WRONG ABOUT LOKI  >:( >:( >:( ;D >:(

Srsly, I was only talking about his character within the framework that the movie itself set up for him. I'm sure that Loki was a much meaner deity in the mythology, and for that matter I remember him being a bigger jerk in the comic books as well. I just thought that at the very least, within the confines of that one movie, he was a really interesting character. Maybe he even would have been a crappy ruler, but I think the question can be asked about his motivation, and I just don't see that you can even present that question regarding any other villain in any other superhero movie.
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Offline Halleyscomet/Wakefield

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Re: The Avengers movie
« Reply #358 on: May 30, 2012, 12:23:26 PM »
WELL OKAY THEN MAYBE I AM WRONG ABOUT LOKI  >:( >:( >:( ;D >:(

Srsly, I was only talking about his character within the framework that the movie itself set up for him. I'm sure that Loki was a much meaner deity in the mythology, and for that matter I remember him being a bigger jerk in the comic books as well. I just thought that at the very least, within the confines of that one movie, he was a really interesting character. Maybe he even would have been a crappy ruler, but I think the question can be asked about his motivation, and I just don't see that you can even present that question regarding any other villain in any other superhero movie.

I think they're doing a great job with the character. The fact that there are ways in which he might have made a better ruler than Thor is part of what makes him and interesting character. In some ways you empathize with him. a lot of his motives for the bulk of the movie are understandable.

Offline ting-bu-dong

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Re: The Avengers movie
« Reply #359 on: May 30, 2012, 12:40:36 PM »
WELL OKAY THEN MAYBE I AM WRONG ABOUT LOKI  >:( >:( >:( ;D >:(

I agree that Loki was an amazing villain in Thor (haven't seen Avengers yet), the argument was about whether he would have been a better king than Thor, which I don't see at all. To me the tension resulted from the expectation that Loki on the throne would be a disaster not just for Midgard but for Asgard as well. Good villains are a rarity in superhero movies, usually they have tenuous motivations that are transparent excuses to set up a conflict with the hero. Ra's al Ghul from Batman Begins is a close second.

 

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