Topic: 2 Good friends, In the grasp of amway

[Grimner]

MLM threads make me happy. There are actually people in this world who are worse at math than me. Hurray!

I doubt this is really a "secular" sect. Sounds like they are deeply into worshipping Mammon. Which has got to get annoying by about the third car ride

[341gerbig]

MLM threads make me happy. There are actually people in this world who are worse at math than me. Hurray!

I doubt this is really a "secular" sect. Sounds like they are deeply into worshipping Mammon. Which has got to get annoying by about the third car ride

My two friends are atheists and have been atheists for years,

but they tell me all of the seminars have a strong Christian overtone, every speaker mentioning god, the will of god, gods plan, thanking god etc.

They have also been subjected to a couple of group prayer sessions at smaller meetings/seminars




And lately ive been trying to introduce them to "the caustic soda podcast", just so we can listen to an episode and I can have an hour of peace

[seamas]

The core Amway group are strong Dominionists.

They are totally tied to Christian conservatism, make HUGE political donations and have managed to get leaders from the group on the Board of the US Chamber of Commerce.

If not an actual christian organization, they are damned close.

I can easily see how their political contributions and influence has kept their Pyramid scheme protected.

Just last month Amway donated a half-million $$ to the anti-gay National Organization for Marriage.

[amysrevenge]

I just can't imagine how even a cursory second glance wouldn't see through it.  Maybe it's my science training, but I always look at these things as "money in = money out".  Every penny you get has to come from somewhere, so where is that?  "Not paying for advertising" doesn't even begin to cover it - those millions of dollars have to come from somewhere.  So where is it coming from?  They can't print their own.  Is it supposed to be from other people's sales, that aren't under them in the pyramid?  Is it from interest or dividends from above?

I mean, I don't know all the details, but I can definitely follow in general where my own pay comes from, at least a few hands back (maybe not all the way to wherever the wealth originated, but far enough for my own purposes).

[Eternally Learning]

I just can't imagine how even a cursory second glance wouldn't see through it. 

On Saturday I was at a late V-Day dinner with my wife.  The table next to us were close enough that I could catch bits of their conversation.  At one point I hear the lady say (not shitting you), "It's just that he's so close to Jesus and God, and he prays so much.  I cannot believe he's being dishonest about [inaudible]."  That's the kind of thinking we're up against.  Charisma and a willingness to commit fully to a lie win over a lot of people very easily.

[amysrevenge]

I can understand being fooled by a charismatic liar.

[MilkMan]

Its sad what Amway/Quickstar can do to people. One of my closest, and longest friends, and his whole family actually, have been doing this shit forever. I remember when I was about 6-7, so a good 25 years ago or so, how I was stay at his house and his parents were talking nothing but Amway, always trying to get my parents into it, they just kindly said "thanks but no thanks" and changed the subject. Then years later their kids were all trying to push it, telling me how they were gonna be millionares, never gonna have to work again by the time they were 25 yadda yadda. Then my first brush with Quickstar was when one of them asked me to come to a "friendly get together" that some of their friends were having. It wasn't sold as a "biusiness meeting" or anything like that, just some friends getting together, so I'm thinking BBQ or party, OK! I show up, and dude brings us into his garage, where he's got about 15-20 folding chairs set up around a white board, and I'm thinking "WTF...." I looked at my friend with a slightly pissed face and he just looked at me with a big shit eating grin and said "this is SO exciting!"..... I sat there through the 2 hours of smoke up ass blowing, and as soon as its over he turns to me all excited and says, "what did ya think?!" I tried to keep it as neutral and friendly as possible, I mean, this is a family friend of 25 years at this point, and said, "that's nice, its just not for me I don't think". He continued to hound me for a month after that, to sign up under him, ad every time it was a "thanks but no thanks" out of me, he eventually stopped, but grew very distant from me, quiet, and some what negative long story short, he, his brother, and his parents are NOT millionares, despite being in Amway/Quickstar 30+ years now, they are not even middle class if there was any way to figure out the numbers over the years, they have probably spent thousands apon thousands and received barely 1/100th of that in return. Just makes me mad when it feels like our friendship has suffered because I didn't get on board, and am probably one of their excuses of why they are not millionares yet, maybe they hold some resentment to all of their friends, ect who didn't "get on board", /sigh

[341gerbig]

They said a year ago that they were both going to be retired by now, making enough money off amway to support themselves.
I asked them last week why they weren't retired, they blamed the market and the economy. Couldn't possibly be the bullshit buisness plan....

[MikeHz]

Sounds like they are deeply into worshipping Mammon.

Is that, like, based in Utah?

[MilkMan]

Yeah, its always gonna be in another 2-3 years and just a couple more people under them....and I've been hearing that for over 20 years.

[Obsequious]

A while ago, a dear friend of mine told me she and her mom and dad were all going to get great deals on new Android phones because of something having to do with her brother's work.

OK, I thought, her brother works for a cell phone service provider or vendor or something, or maybe his employer gets him some kind of great inside deal.

Nope.

One of his coworkers was involved in an MLM that sold phones and phone service, and was recruiting him to join the organization. I Googled the company's name and found endless horror stories from people who'd gotten phones through the company and were very unhappy, as well as people who'd joined the organization and gotten burned.

Fortunately, I was able to share this info with my friend and convince her parents not to go this route. Her brother was very predictably chagrined, and already had a canned response for her every objection. He kept falling back on the fact that Donald Trump was involved, and saying, "Come on, do you really think DONALD TRUMP would get involved in something shady?"

This is very similar to another tactic which I've seen lots of MLM recruiters use; describing their organization as "a Fortune 500 company." In fact, I've even seen non-MLM scam artists repeatedly fall back on the fact that their shady company has "a Fortune 500 company" as a client.

A wonderful case in point is Dzurenda and Associates, also known as EMW Inc. Dzurenda and Associates is not MLM, but simply a door-to-door sales company which uses MLM-style deception to trick people into showing up for "working interviews," and then additional MLM style brainwashing to keep them motivated as they pound the pavement for 10 hours a day without lunch breaks, working on straight commission.

Take a gander at the following truly incredible Yelp Talk thread in which the company's owner, Trevor Dzurenda, repeatedly posts under troll accounts, posing as happy employees, trying to defend his practices. You'll note numerous invocations of the "we work with a Fortune 500 company, so we can't possibly be a scam" line:

Is Dzurenda and Associates a Scam?

[Grimner]

Sounds like they are deeply into worshipping Mammon.

Is that, like, based in Utah?

I think you might be confusing Mormon, the angel of underwear, with Mammon, the god of greed. But money and sex do often go together, so maybe you are onto something.

[Dirty J. Martini]

You'll note numerous invocations of the "we work with a Fortune 500 company, so we can't possibly be a scam" line:

Yeah, I had a 1-person shop about 12 years ago, and my second customer was a Fortune-500 company. It's completely meaningless.

[JuniorSpaceman]

Exactly. I run a one man operation that would be disastrous if even one more person joined (ie there's enough to keep me going, but not much more to go around), and I work with some of the highest profile companies and organisations in the country. That says nothing about earning potential if I went scammer and turned it into a franchise.

[Skepdad]

They said a year ago that they were both going to be retired by now, making enough money off amway to support themselves.
I asked them last week why they weren't retired, they blamed the market and the economy. Couldn't possibly be the bullshit buisness plan....

Yea, because no one is buying soaps and detergents with the economy in the shitter ...