Topic: Neil Gaiman – American Gods

[Skeptress]

I listened to it awhile back.  I didn't like it until about 75% in from what I remember and then suddenly it kind of all made sense.  It's been WAY too long since I read the Dirk series. I need to find it.

[Neon Genesis]

It's the worst plagiarism of a Douglas Adams book I've ever seen. 

I love when people try to pretend that Neil Gaiman is either a visionary, or a creative genius, or anything, really, besides the literary equivalent of a cutpurse.

If, by the way, you hated American Gods, you'll love the original version of the book, Adams' The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.

Wasn't Stardust a plagarizing of Hayao Miyazaki's movie, Laputa?  A girl falls out of the sky with a magic stone that everyone is chasing her after and they have misadventures with pirates on flying airships?  Where have I heard that plot before?

[Holden Attradies]

That's a pretty stiff accusation, do you have any facts to back it up?  Until you do I personally find it more likely they just happened to write two very similar stories, at least when broken down to the bear bones plot.  I don't think I've ever seen a story so orginal I couldn't find other stories it seemed similar to.

[Neon Genesis]

Gaiman did write the English script for the dub of Princess Mononoke so he is aware of Miyazaki's work having been involved in it himself.

[Bunsen]

Gaiman did write the English script for the dub of Princess Mononoke so he is aware of Miyazaki's work having been involved in it himself.

And he's referred to himself as a Myazaki fan in the fast.

[Neon Genesis]

There's been a history of American entertainment plagiarizing ideas from Japanese anime dating back to The Lion King/Kimba fiasco and more recently you have Inception and Black Swan ripping off Satoshi Kon films.  I still enjoyed Stardust like I still enjoyed The Lion King in spite of the obvious similarities to anime but the similarities to Laputa in Stardust are more than a bit suspicious. 

[Skeptress]

Laputa does not sound all that similar to Stardust .  Then again I've never seen Laputa but have read Stardust and seen the movie.

[Holden Attradies]

There's been a history of American entertainment plagiarizing ideas from Japanese anime dating back to The Lion King/Kimba fiasco and more recently you have Inception and Black Swan ripping off Satoshi Kon films.  I still enjoyed Stardust like I still enjoyed The Lion King in spite of the obvious similarities to anime but the similarities to Laputa in Stardust are more than a bit suspicious.

I still say show me the proof.  There is a big difference between making a movie that is similar to something already in existence verses plagiarizer.  Even if a filmed was inspired by something else that doesn't make it plagiarizer.  Are you sure your using the word correctly?  I don't mean to be to confrontational, if I'm wrong back up your accusation of plagiarizer, show the creator intentionally made a copy of the original "plagiarized" source material without attributing it such.

And I second Skeptress that the stories don't actually sound all that similar, especially when comparing the version of Stardus as it is present in book form.

[Neon Genesis]

As has already been stated in the thread, Gaiman has stated he's a Miyazaki fan and he's even been involved in Miyazaki's movies himself as an English translator for them.  He may not have set out to create a word for word rip off but if he had seen Laputa before creating Stardust, it's very plausible that he incorporated different themes and motifs from Miyazaki's movie into his work, similar to how Tolkien had incorporated elements from Richard Wagner's operas into LOTR.  He may not have intended a direct rip off and he took Richard Wagner's concepts into very different directions, but he clearly borrowed the concept of magic rings that turn the user evil from Richard Wagner.  Likewise, Gaiman may not have set out to directly rip off Miyazaki, but he's clearly getting his influences for a girl from the sky with a magic stone being chased by various factions for control of its power and flying pirate ships from Miyazaki.  These similarities don't make Gaiman bad and I quite enjoyed Stardust but they don't make him original either. 

[Holden Attradies]

As has already been stated in the thread, Gaiman has stated he's a Miyazaki fan and he's even been involved in Miyazaki's movies himself as an English translator for them.  He may not have set out to create a word for word rip off but if he had seen Laputa before creating Stardust, it's very plausible that he incorporated different themes and motifs from Miyazaki's movie into his work, similar to how Tolkien had incorporated elements from Richard Wagner's operas into LOTR.  He may not have intended a direct rip off and he took Richard Wagner's concepts into very different directions, but he clearly borrowed the concept of magic rings that turn the user evil from Richard Wagner.  Likewise, Gaiman may not have set out to directly rip off Miyazaki, but he's clearly getting his influences for a girl from the sky with a magic stone being chased by various factions for control of its power and flying pirate ships from Miyazaki.  These similarities don't make Gaiman bad and I quite enjoyed Stardust but they don't make him original either.

I would say your above statement kind of goes a long way to showing he didn't plagiarize anything.  Unless you are using defining the word in a radically different way than I am. 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/plagiarism

"the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work, as by not crediting the author"

I don't see that in what your presenting above.  Are you using the word with a different meaning as I am?  If not, I again ask "show me the proof."

[Halleyscomet/Wakefield]

Laputa does not sound all that similar to Stardust .  Then again I've never seen Laputa but have read Stardust and seen the movie.

It's more than a stretch to claim Stardust is a ripoff of Laputa. Aside from both having a "quest for the foo" plot the only real similarity is that at some point near the beginning a woman falls from the sky. You might as well call both of them a ripoff of "Romancing the Stone". At least Stardust and Romancing the Stone share a romantic subplot that's not really present in Laputa.

[amysrevenge]

Ripoff shmipoff.

I wish I could remember where I saw it, but there was some blog somewhere where the guy wrote up long, thorough plot synopses, and then listed off two (or sometimes more) movies that fit the synopses exactly even though you wouldn't think they were the same at all.

You can make any two movies sound similar if you want to.  "They both had this dude with a shirt - what a total ripoff"