Topic: Religion: Good, Evil, Both or Neither?

[Eternally Learning]

First I'll give my take, then I'll come back around later after reading other people's.

Forgiving for the sake of argument that "evil" is a purely religious concept, I think the short answer can only be both and neither.  Religion is a separate concept from the people within it while at the same time being created and maintained by those same people.  I think a fair thing to say that all the flaws inherent in religion are inherent in humanity in general.  I also think that the buildup of these flaws within an unquestionable system is that systems most damning feature. 

So basically, I think that we can expect that a religion free world will develop many of the same problems as the current one has, but a world governed by non-dogmatic ideals and ideas I think has the best chance of any to avoid and move past these pitfalls.

[Hanes]

"Religion: Good, Evil, Both or Neither?"

Is phrenology evil?  It was used to justify racism, but it didn't have to be.

Since when are ideas evil?  Or good?  Is the idea "babies are delicious when roasted with garlic and herbs" evil, or just the people that act on that idea?

Obviously the answer is "neither."  But it is fucking retarded and wrong*, which is why the ideas really should be opposed.  If an individual that happens to be religious also happens to be evil, then they should be opposed too.  Same goes for evil people who justify their jackassery in non-religious ways.

(click to show/hide)

*6.9/7!!1zomg...
 

because I know if I don't say it, some pedant's panties will instantly twist

[Bill K]

Shouldn't one approach this more academically? Merely define the terms and connect the dots. No?

[jomike]

I think a fair thing to say that all the flaws inherent in religion are inherent in humanity in general.  I also think that the buildup of these flaws within an unquestionable system is that systems most damning feature.

Habitually believing in things not in evidence causes epistemic damage.  Societal reinforcement of the ignorant turn of mind has resulted in an inestimable amount of pain and suffering in this world.  Someone here recently recited a famous Voltaire quote that is dead on the money:

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

[Eternally Learning]

I think a fair thing to say that all the flaws inherent in religion are inherent in humanity in general.  I also think that the buildup of these flaws within an unquestionable system is that systems most damning feature.

Habitually believing in things not in evidence causes epistemic damage.  Societal reinforcement of the ignorant turn of mind has resulted in an inestimable amount of pain and suffering in this world.  Someone here recently recited a famous Voltaire quote that is dead on the money:

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

Yes.  My point is simply that people making other people believe absurdities is not an action constrained to religion.  There are plenty of non-religious absurdities out there which people buy into wholesale such as "alternative medicines" or psychic abilities or UFOs. 

[jomike]

Yes.  My point is simply that people making other people believe absurdities is not an action constrained to religion.  There are plenty of non-religious absurdities out there which people buy into wholesale such as "alternative medicines" or psychic abilities or UFOs.

Oh, no doubt about it.  But organized religion's proven uniquely successful at propagating such beliefs among vast numbers of people, and over long periods of time.  Woo-woo waxes and wanes, but revealed religion abides.

[Eternally Learning]

Yes.  My point is simply that people making other people believe absurdities is not an action constrained to religion.  There are plenty of non-religious absurdities out there which people buy into wholesale such as "alternative medicines" or psychic abilities or UFOs.

Oh, no doubt about it.  But organized religion's proven uniquely successful at propagating such beliefs among vast numbers of people, and over long periods of time.  Woo-woo waxes and wanes, but revealed religion abides.

Is that really any different then what I said?

[jomike]

Is that really any different then what I said?

     I wasn't disagreeing with you, merely adding to your comment.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Eternally Learning]

Is that really any different then what I said?

     I wasn't disagreeing with you, merely adding to your comment.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Ah, no worries .

[NekoNinja]

First I'll give my take, then I'll come back around later after reading other people's.

Forgiving for the sake of argument that "evil" is a purely religious concept, I think the short answer can only be both and neither.  Religion is a separate concept from the people within it while at the same time being created and maintained by those same people.  I think a fair thing to say that all the flaws inherent in religion are inherent in humanity in general.  I also think that the buildup of these flaws within an unquestionable system is that systems most damning feature. 

So basically, I think that we can expect that a religion free world will develop many of the same problems as the current one has, but a world governed by non-dogmatic ideals and ideas I think has the best chance of any to avoid and move past these pitfalls.

I put the term evil as more or less a joke. I don't disagree that religion really isn't all that different from the other pseudo beliefs out there. What I don't really understand is why there are so many people who like to say that they aren't opposed to religion (but might be opposed to other things,) and think that religion should get a free pass of sorts. Often they simply give the excuse "Its the  'bad people' in the religions that make it bad, not religion in general." Yet doesn't it make more sense that anything supporting dogmatic faith should be simply discouraged and fought against just as much as any other similar beliefs? After all, isn't it things like that, that are the real problem here?

[IrishJazz]

I put the term evil as more or less a joke. I don't disagree that religion really isn't all that different from the other pseudo beliefs out there. What I don't really understand is why there are so many people who like to say that they aren't opposed to religion (but might be opposed to other things,) and think that religion should get a free pass of sorts.

I will double down on NekoNinja, and say that religion is not that different from any other belief, unqualified, period.   There are things that we can know with confidence and things we can believe.  The former have no moral consequences, they just are.  The latter, whether it is that a first century peasant was the creator of the universe returned for his own cryptic reasons to suffer and die to allow everybody to live forever (correcting an odd oversight for a supposedly omniscient being) or the belief that the small bits of truth that we have pried from the uncaring universe are sufficient to give us the warm glow of atheist superiority, are both just reflections of absurd self-confidence. 

It is  no great trick to know you are right.  Every idiot knows they are right.  The challenge is getting things to turn out for the best.  If that requires overlooking somebody knocking on wood, or taking communion, or making a mistake about the timing of the the Treaty of Ghent. well, that is the cost of getting things done in the real world.  Letting people be wrong is the essence of freedom. It is both polite and good strategy.  There will come a real fight when we need allies that don't agree with us.

Not that we can't make fun of the benighted bastards here.