Author Topic: "Slaves Obey Your Masters" billboard torn down  (Read 7753 times)

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Offline MikeHz

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Re: "Slaves Obey Your Masters" billboard torn down
« Reply #390 on: Mar 30, 2012, 07:19:50 PM »
Hey! I went to Auburn. (Well, attended a two-week engineering seminar, anyway.
If you still hold the same views now as you did in high school, you probably should reexamine those views.

Offline seaotter

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Re: "Slaves Obey Your Masters" billboard torn down
« Reply #391 on: Mar 30, 2012, 08:00:11 PM »
Seaotter.... how exactly are you walking humbly with your God?

Ahhhhh the fly in the ointment.
"There is no use trying," said Alice; "one can't believe impossible things." Lewis Carroll

Offline seaotter

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Re: "Slaves Obey Your Masters" billboard torn down
« Reply #392 on: Mar 30, 2012, 08:05:37 PM »
Hey! I went to Auburn. (Well, attended a two-week engineering seminar, anyway.

Well, War Eagle!
"There is no use trying," said Alice; "one can't believe impossible things." Lewis Carroll

Offline jomike

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Re: "Slaves Obey Your Masters" billboard torn down
« Reply #393 on: Mar 30, 2012, 08:23:29 PM »
See, you remember how I characterized your behavior in our last interchange, when you continued to maintain that there was "nothing the least bit"  postmodern about Robert Price,

See, I remember how you repeatedly mischaracterized what I wrote in that oh-so-pleasant exchange.  (You're doing it again, here.)  Because, see, if you go back and read what I wrote you'll see that I never claimed there's "'nothing the least bit" postmodern about Robert Price," period-full-stop.  What I actually said is that there's nothing the least bit postmodern about his work.

Blithely ignoring that last word, you went off & googled up a couple posts from Price's web site in which he mentioned postmodern influences on his writing & scholarship, which you then trumpeted as proof that You Are Right!  And I Am Wrong!  And Not Only That, But I Obviously Do Not Understand What Postmodernism Is!  Because Obviously I Think It's Terrible And Awful And Stuff!  And various other bold claims regarding my lack of understanding of this & that.

All of which was astonishingly snotty and condescending, not to mention flat wrong.  Because (again, and for I think the third time now) I did not claim that Robert Price has never in his entire career been influenced in any way whatsoever by *the* major intellectual influence of the latter half of the twentieth century.  Hell, who hasn't been influenced by it?

What I claimed -- all I claimed -- is that if you read his books or listen to what he has to say in debates and lectures and so forth, you find that his work -- his output -- is the antithesis of postmodern relativism.  If anything he comes across as a pre-postmodernist, a quaint Enlightenment empiricist.  A throwback.  Whatever his literary and scholarly influences might've been.

Engage on that, if you like.  It's a debatable position.  Or don't, I don't care.  But either way, please stop misrepresenting what I wrote, and please stop making disparaging remarks about me based on your own carelessness & misunderstanding.

If memory serves, some other people chimed in as well.  I leave it to others to decide if you were a brave champion of the truth or... whatever the opposite of that might be.

"Brave champion of the truth."   Devastating.  (BTW, take care to keep your hands firmly on those reins and your feet planted firmly in those stirrups, 'cause it is a looong fall off that-there high horse you're on.)

(Apologies to everyone else for the hijack.)

Offline IrishJazz

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Re: "Slaves Obey Your Masters" billboard torn down
« Reply #394 on: Mar 30, 2012, 10:39:05 PM »
Quote from: jomike
Yeah, there's nothing the least bit postmodern about his work, and it's absurd to write him off as a "gadfly."  Axe-grinding and/or erudite trollery is afoot here.


Quote from: jomike2
What I claimed -- all I claimed -- is that if you read his books or listen to what he has to say in debates and lectures and so forth, you find that his work -- his output -- is the antithesis of postmodern relativism.  If anything he comes across as a pre-postmodernist, a quaint Enlightenment empiricist.  A throwback.  Whatever his literary and scholarly influences might've been.


My point in that conversation was that you did not seem to know then what postmodernism was- it is not strictly or even mostly relativism- and you still don't.  To you it is invective, just as you perceived my citation of Busker's position to be an ad hominem.  But if you want to hold the position that there is nothing the least bit postmodern about a work called "Deconstructing Jesus" written by a man who openly cites postmodernist thinking as a major impact on his work, and who calls his belief system "Postmodern theology"... well, have at it.  Children will not go hungry, the world will still spin on its axis.  There are doubtless more dangerous ideas about.

And if you want to think that it makes you look smart, and me look petty... well you are half right.  It is petty to waste time and energy correcting the self-evidently incorrect. I am apparently over-fond of argument.  Even when I am trying to back away from one with Busker, I am willing to dive into one with you.  I apologize, prematurely. 

As for my high horse, honestly, it's just a pony.  It just looks high from your perspective.
« Last Edit: Mar 31, 2012, 09:25:50 AM by IrishJazz »
"When a dirty fighter realizes he has no legs left, he aims low." - Jennifer McDonald, NYTimes book review

Offline seaotter

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Re: "Slaves Obey Your Masters" billboard torn down
« Reply #395 on: Mar 31, 2012, 09:15:15 AM »
It just looks high from your perspective! Bam! Someone should start a thread to preserve your devastating rhetoric. I continue to be in awe. Hitchenesk!
"There is no use trying," said Alice; "one can't believe impossible things." Lewis Carroll

Offline worldslaziestbusker

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Re: "Slaves Obey Your Masters" billboard torn down
« Reply #396 on: Mar 31, 2012, 10:57:28 PM »
It just looks high from your perspective! Bam! Someone should start a thread to preserve your devastating rhetoric. I continue to be in awe. Hitchenesk!

Yeah, that time he managed to blame you for being in the closet about your atheism was a marvel of rhetoric overwhelming ethical thinking.
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Offline seaotter

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Re: "Slaves Obey Your Masters" billboard torn down
« Reply #397 on: Mar 31, 2012, 11:09:42 PM »
Don't be a dick?
"There is no use trying," said Alice; "one can't believe impossible things." Lewis Carroll

Offline worldslaziestbusker

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Re: "Slaves Obey Your Masters" billboard torn down
« Reply #398 on: Mar 31, 2012, 11:53:10 PM »
Don't be a dick?

Dick physician dick heal thyself.
WLB - malcontent badgerer: because being a content gerbiller held distasteful associations and didn't get answers.

Offline IrishJazz

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Re: "Slaves Obey Your Masters" billboard torn down
« Reply #399 on: Apr 01, 2012, 12:11:23 AM »
Busker's unvarying hostility is the quintessence of his charm.  I have no idea what he is talking about;  thus no reason to disagree.
"When a dirty fighter realizes he has no legs left, he aims low." - Jennifer McDonald, NYTimes book review

Offline seaotter

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Re: "Slaves Obey Your Masters" billboard torn down
« Reply #400 on: Apr 01, 2012, 06:40:09 AM »
wb

Reminiscent of haiku!
"There is no use trying," said Alice; "one can't believe impossible things." Lewis Carroll

Offline jomike

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Re: "Slaves Obey Your Masters" billboard torn down
« Reply #401 on: Apr 02, 2012, 07:19:32 PM »
My point in that conversation was that you did not seem to know then what postmodernism was- it is not strictly or even mostly relativism- and you still don't.  To you it is invective,

You "seem to" not have the slightest idea what I do or do not understand, and "seem to" be trying to use the word "postmodern" as a cudgel.  (BTW, "seem to" surely must be the most handy weasel phrase ever.  Because whenever an opponent disagrees on some specific point, you can put him/her on the defensive by declaring s/he "seems to" not understand the matter under discussion.  Then, if s/he responds, nitpick the responses to death.  But if s/he doesn't -- that is, if s/he treats the rhetorical trick with the disrespect it deserves by choosing not to respond -- then booyah, you get the last word!  WINNING!)

just as you perceived my citation of Busker's position to be an ad hominem.

No, see, it's not a mere matter of perception.  You employed paralepsis to deprecate an opponent's argument.  As I explain to you multiple times, it's a species of ad hominem attack.  Sorry it annoys you to have pointed out, but it's what you did.  Own it, or walk it back.  Or drop it.

But if you want to hold the position that there is nothing the least bit postmodern about a work called "Deconstructing Jesus" written by a man who openly cites postmodernist thinking as a major impact on his work, and who calls his belief system "Postmodern theology"... well, have at it.

FFS.  Historical biblical criticism of the sort Price and numerous scholars employs goes back hundreds of years.  It was formalized and achieved its greatest fame & attention with German higher criticism in the 19th century -- e.g., the Tübingen school.   Price's approach is not the least bit novel; he's operating within a long tradition of biblical criticism.  To presume that an author who uses the word "deconstructing" in a book title and acknowledges postmodern influences on his scholarship is necessarily some sort of doctrinaire postmodernist is simplistic & naive in the extreme.  You could make the case with, say, Karen Armstrong, or maybe Robert Wright, but Price, NFW.

And if you want to think that it makes you look smart, and me look petty... well you are half right.  It is petty to waste time and energy correcting the self-evidently incorrect.

Your grandiose assertions regarding what other people "want to think," and what is & is not "self-evidently incorrect," are precisely what get you into trouble.   (Interesting, BTW, that you assume that I'm out to "make you look petty."  I wasn't, but you're doing rather fine job of it yourself.)

Offline Lukas

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Re: "Slaves Obey Your Masters" billboard torn down
« Reply #402 on: Apr 02, 2012, 09:25:54 PM »
Not to interrupt your little brawl here, I bet we all here love meta-discussions and spillovers from other threads... (I know it is hard to let the other one have the last word, especially if you are correct...)

Offline IrishJazz

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Re: "Slaves Obey Your Masters" billboard torn down
« Reply #403 on: Apr 02, 2012, 11:37:23 PM »
Not to interrupt your little brawl here, I bet we all here love meta-discussions and spillovers from other threads... (I know it is hard to let the other one have the last word, especially if you are correct...)

The offense rests.
"When a dirty fighter realizes he has no legs left, he aims low." - Jennifer McDonald, NYTimes book review

Offline j_j

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Re: "Slaves Obey Your Masters" billboard torn down
« Reply #404 on: Apr 03, 2012, 04:19:36 PM »
The problem with the billboard is simple:  The Truth Hurts
If a man's retch should exceed his gasp, then what's a heavin' for?