Topic: John Lennon or Jesus

[Citizen Skeptic]

I guess it is up to me to say it. Lennon may have been bigger than Jesus but Clapton was GOD! 

[andrewclunn]

Eric Clapton - Let It Rain

[Citizen Skeptic]

Perfect song because it actually looks like it's about to start raining. 

[jmars]

Wow. So someone who admires John Lennon is a hypocrite? Does that include admiring him as a musical artist, take or leave his political views? I admire that he stood up for what he believed in and didn't let popular opinion deter him. He was just a person with an opinion like every other celebrity with a microphone is.

Personally, there are things that he has said that I agree with and things that I disagree with. Overall, though, I happen to like his music. However, I am not one who reads into every lyric, and takes everything to heart. "Imagine" is not the song that I was thinking of when I said he influenced me, if that was your assumption, however, I disagree with your analysis of it. I'm pretty sure that by the time he was in his late 30's, and living in New York, he wasn't meeting with gurus and traveling to Tibet. He dabbled in what was popular at the time. There's nothing wrong with searching for meaning in your life if you haven't got it all figured out. I researched the philosophy of Buddhism for a while before completely transitioning to the "dark side". I'm pretty sure he considered himself an agnostic atheist towards the end of his life.

If lyrics are an indicator:

Lyrics From his 1970 song "God" (album "Plastic Ono Band"):

God is a concept by which we can measure our pain...
I don't believe in magic, I don't believe in I-ching,
I don't believe in bible, I don't believe in tarot,
I don't believe in Hitler, I don't believe in Jesus,
I don't believe in Kennedy, I don't believe in Buddha,
I don't believe in mantra, I don't believe in Gita,
I don't believe in yoga, I don't believe in kings,
I don't believe in Elvis, I don't believe in Zimmerman,
I don't believe in Beatles...
I just believe in me, Yoko and me, and that's reality.'

Personally, if I were living in the 60's during a time of monumental change, the draft, and unprecedented human right's cases, I'd be more likely to be a hippie than the alternatives. It's easy to look back with hindsight and judge people who tried to express themselves and their beliefs and didn't have it all figured out.

[jmars]

I think that Gandhi said it best...

“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."

Good quote. Reminds me of another one I like:

"If Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be -- a Christian." -Mark Twain

[Shibboleth]

I believe in Hitler and Kennedy. I mean I guess Kennedy could have been fake in order to fake the moon landing.

[andrewclunn]

Wow. So someone who admires John Lennon is a hypocrite? Does that include admiring him as a musical artist, take or leave his political views? I admire that he stood up for what he believed in and didn't let popular opinion deter him. He was just a person with an opinion like every other celebrity with a microphone is.

Personally, there are things that he has said that I agree with and things that I disagree with. Overall, though, I happen to like his music. However, I am not one who reads into every lyric, and takes everything to heart. "Imagine" is not the song that I was thinking of when I said he influenced me, if that was your assumption, however, I disagree with your analysis of it. I'm pretty sure that by the time he was in his late 30's, and living in New York, he wasn't meeting with gurus and traveling to Tibet. He dabbled in what was popular at the time. There's nothing wrong with searching for meaning in your life if you haven't got it all figured out. I researched the philosophy of Buddhism for a while before completely transitioning to the "dark side". I'm pretty sure he considered himself an agnostic atheist towards the end of his life.

If lyrics are an indicator:

Lyrics From his 1970 song "God" (album "Plastic Ono Band"):

God is a concept by which we can measure our pain...
I don't believe in magic, I don't believe in I-ching,
I don't believe in bible, I don't believe in tarot,
I don't believe in Hitler, I don't believe in Jesus,
I don't believe in Kennedy, I don't believe in Buddha,
I don't believe in mantra, I don't believe in Gita,
I don't believe in yoga, I don't believe in kings,
I don't believe in Elvis, I don't believe in Zimmerman,
I don't believe in Beatles...
I just believe in me, Yoko and me, and that's reality.'

Personally, if I were living in the 60's during a time of monumental change, the draft, and unprecedented human right's cases, I'd be more likely to be a hippie than the alternatives. It's easy to look back with hindsight and judge people who tried to express themselves and their beliefs and didn't have it all figured out.

Look, I don't like Lennon.  You felt the need to be bothered by the fact that I didn't like him (me personally even though I was hardly the first to say I didn't like him and even stated my reasons for it in my first post in this thread).  You picked a fight with me because apparently it bothers you that other people might not like what you like.  Get down off your high horse.  It's just a rocking horse after all.

[Citizen Skeptic]

Wow. So someone who admires John Lennon is a hypocrite? Does that include admiring him as a musical artist, take or leave his political views? I admire that he stood up for what he believed in and didn't let popular opinion deter him. He was just a person with an opinion like every other celebrity with a microphone is.

Personally, there are things that he has said that I agree with and things that I disagree with. Overall, though, I happen to like his music. However, I am not one who reads into every lyric, and takes everything to heart. "Imagine" is not the song that I was thinking of when I said he influenced me, if that was your assumption, however, I disagree with your analysis of it. I'm pretty sure that by the time he was in his late 30's, and living in New York, he wasn't meeting with gurus and traveling to Tibet. He dabbled in what was popular at the time. There's nothing wrong with searching for meaning in your life if you haven't got it all figured out. I researched the philosophy of Buddhism for a while before completely transitioning to the "dark side". I'm pretty sure he considered himself an agnostic atheist towards the end of his life.

If lyrics are an indicator:

Lyrics From his 1970 song "God" (album "Plastic Ono Band"):

God is a concept by which we can measure our pain...
I don't believe in magic, I don't believe in I-ching,
I don't believe in bible, I don't believe in tarot,
I don't believe in Hitler, I don't believe in Jesus,
I don't believe in Kennedy, I don't believe in Buddha,
I don't believe in mantra, I don't believe in Gita,
I don't believe in yoga, I don't believe in kings,
I don't believe in Elvis, I don't believe in Zimmerman,
I don't believe in Beatles...
I just believe in me, Yoko and me, and that's reality.'

Personally, if I were living in the 60's during a time of monumental change, the draft, and unprecedented human right's cases, I'd be more likely to be a hippie than the alternatives. It's easy to look back with hindsight and judge people who tried to express themselves and their beliefs and didn't have it all figured out.

Look, I don't like Lennon.  You felt the need to be bothered by the fact that I didn't like him (me personally even though I was hardly the first to say I didn't like him and even stated my reasons for it in my first post in this thread).  You picked a fight with me because apparently it bothers you that other people might not like what you like.  Get down off your high horse.  It's just a rocking horse after all.

All you need to know about Lennon.

I just believe in me, Yoko and me, and that's reality.'

If Yoko is your reality, you're really f'd up.

[IrishJazz]

You picked a fight with me because apparently it bothers you that other people might not like what you like.  Get down off your high horse.  It's just a rocking horse after all.

Well, you are a fight picking machine.  But looking back on your original post, it seems that you were really trying to pick a fight with the baby boom, the largest demographic on the planet.  Then again, they are getting a bit old and frail.

[andrewclunn]

You picked a fight with me because apparently it bothers you that other people might not like what you like.  Get down off your high horse.  It's just a rocking horse after all.

Well, you are a fight picking machine.  But looking back on your original post, it seems that you were really trying to pick a fight with the baby boom, the largest demographic on the planet.  Then again, they are getting a bit old and frail.

It is true that my post could be construed as derogatory towards baby boomers, and for that I apologize (I thought this thread was fairly light hearted, so didn't think much of it).  Unless I'm mistaken though jmars isn't a baby boomer.

[jmars]

Well, I'm not upset that you don't like John Lennon. I was assuming that just because I said "why the hate" you were talking directly to me when you were describing "people who admire John Lennon" and then preceded to make comments about their hypocrisy and how you have to refrain from laughing at them. All I initially did was question the megalomania comment. I was genuinely interested in hearing if I have overlooked aspects of his personality. I wasn't trying to pick a fight with you, but maybe explain my reasons for liking him and why I am not the type of person you described (just a you explained your reasons for disliking him). So although I don't see how disagreeing with you is somehow me being on a high horse, I can see you were offended by my joke, so I'll retract that and make note not to make jokes again.

The previous post was defensive, not offensive. I'm having a real shit storm of a day, so sorry if I was taking things personally.

[andrewclunn]

I did take your, "Did John Lennon's opinion convince your parents to get divorced or something?" statement as a joke at first.  It was your post that indicated to IrishJazz that your first post was also in response to me that made me read it in a different light.  If this is a curffufle over nothing then I extend a peace offering in the form of praise for a Beatles song I like:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dsz4dB6DuM

[moj]

I dislike the music. It epitomizes a time and a generation I feel no part of, and don't particularly enjoy.  I heard all the records ad nauseum growing up so maybe it's some residual rebellion against what your brought up with but it genuinely displeases me to hear there music. I do also get sick of all the pedestal they get put upon. Yes I can appreciate the where creative and did some new things for the time, but don't think they deserve the greatest band of all time so many people seem to spring on them. If there Beatles never existed don't think music today would be much different, someone else would have gone in the same direction they did.

[jmars]

Peace offering accepted, but I'll have to watch it later on my home computer where evil music like this isn't blocked by the education filter! Perhaps it will make my day a little better, thanks. No hard feelings.

[jmars]

I dislike Jesus. He epitomizes a time and a generation I feel no part of, and don't particularly enjoy.  I heard all the Bible stories ad nauseum growing up so maybe it's some residual rebellion against what your brought up with, but it genuinely displeases me to hear praises about Jesus. I do also get sick of the pedestal he gets put on. Yes, I can appreciate he was creative and did some new things for the time, but don't think he deserves the "greatest religious figure of all time" label so many Christians seem to give him. If Jesus  never existed, don't think religion today would be much different. Some other religion would have gone in the same direction Christianity did.

I can see how you feel.  But seriously, there ARE many parallels in the worship of a band artist and a religious figure.