Author Topic: Pagan rapist cult-leader in training; an advice request  (Read 1013 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline The Troubadour

  • Off to a Start
  • *
  • Posts: 83
Pagan rapist cult-leader in training; an advice request
« on: Mar 29, 2012, 11:43:06 AM »
Hello everyone.  I’d been meaning to post here to describe a strange problem I’m having, although it’s become rather exacerbated and the situation has changed.  I have to ask you guys not to spread this story around before the weekend, don’t speak about it, please.  I need a support network of sceptics that aren’t largely available to me right now, but there are reasons why discretion is important in the immediate present.  I understand this is the Internet and I may delete this after a few days of advice to prevent it being found and being punished for this message with everything from libel law to punishment-assault, but I need some advice.  In the meantime, please keep this quiet.

The situation has transformed from an ongoing debate about the efficacy of outspoken atheism to protecting women from a budding cult leader with a history of rape.  I began with  completely different set of questions regarding how to move forward than I currently have. 

I’m a member of a very unique community called the Poetry Slam.  It’s a massive worldwide event that happens weekly in about 200 cities around the world.  Ours has about 120 people who come every week.  We’ve basically turned performing poetry into a riled-up competitive sport, peculiarly similar to the dance-battle phenomenon in L.A.  People are rewarded by the audience for daring to be vulnerable about their lives in their poetry, or for saying something relevant about a social ill, like racism, war, homophobia or feminism.  It’s remarkable. 

Of course, there are a few drawbacks about announcing your own weaknesses on stage: it has attracted a few predators who have learned to pretend how to be “allies” to feminists, “fighting” for women’s rights while sexually harassing them once trust is achieved.  There’s currently an initiative to deal with sexual violence and harassment in our community. 
~||~
Okay, there’s the preamble.  Back in December, a pagan who loves Jesus began to take issue with how I speak out about the potential dangers of religious faith.  He began performing angry pieces about how any atheist who isn’t quiet about his/her disbelief is oppressive.  For a month, I began producing a piece about the evils of religion, that I planned to ask our videographer to upload to our Youtube page.  I would ask him to call it “The Blasphemy Challenge”, and, through keyword searches, it would bring hundreds of sceptics to the poetry slam, at least online, and that was my evil plan against the entitled pagan. 

This person, you should know, has no personal boundaries; he corners people for hours at a time to yell at them about what he thinks; while calling himself an ally, he friendily intimidates women into accepting him as their saviour from the institution.  And, when he was voted off from his positions in the community, he announced that there was a giant conspiracy against him and that everyone was in on it.  Ever since, he began cornering people, mostly women, to groom them into thinking that he was being persecuted and that he should be defended.  (I should also tell you that he has epilepsy that may have caused brain damage; I suspect it’s Temporal Lobe epilepsy, and that his religious convictions and his belief that everything that happens is some epic battle is due to the fact that the part of the brain that identifies when something emergent is happening is stuck on 11). 
~||~
End of the preamble, I promise.  Here’s where things got weird:  someone recently quietly came out as having been sexually assaulted by him years ago.  So have two other people since.  He doesn’t know of these revelations.  He reportedly uses guilt and harassment to turn Nos into Yeses; possibly alcohol as well.  While the victim is going to the police, little will likely happen, and it’s mostly to avoid possible reprisals when the call-out goes public.  While he absolutely needs to believe he’s an ally to women, he might become violent, you never know.  The idea is to use the monthly community meeting as a First-Nations style victim circle, and to collaborate about how to move forward, such as a forced leave of absence from the community with required courses about how to overcome tendencies towards sexual violence and harassment. 

I know that many of you will say "Go to the police, oh my gosh!"  You need to understand that pressing charges for rape represents months if not years of slut-shaming, victim-blaming and is not for the non-rich, even in Canada.  That being said, the police are being notified just in case of reprisals for the accusation, and there may be a police report after the fact.

Since the revelation of sexual assault, my friends who know and my wife have requested that I do not do the antitheism poem, at least for now; as they're afraid of provoking him and being triggered by his malice.

He’s recently announced he’s not coming to the meeting.  He doesn’t know what the meeting’s actually about, it’s very quiet, but his perfectly regular sense of paranoia won the lottery and decided that he’s being targeted for ostracization of some kind, probably for being generally mean. 

Instead, he is sending the women he has spent the last two months grooming to support him against this illusory menace.  They are coming with a statement he has prepared, and will read it out.  Essentially, this serial-rapist (who probably doesn’t see himself that way, as most people think rape just means physical force) has groomed a series of women to believe that he is persecuted for being blue-collar and spiritual, and they have been deployed to fight in his stead.  A month ago one of these women announced that there aer demons in our community and they would be exorcised.

In short, he is developing a small cult of women who are acting as his human shields and his prohibition police.  It is our job to make the case that he is a rapist and is not persecuted but has in fact been spared from punishment for his various abuses over the years.  It is our job to convince them that he’s dangerous and needs help, although he has effectively installed a strange mixture of magical thinking and conspiracy-logic into them. 

Do you have any tips about how to make this case without it turning into a civil war??
« Last Edit: Mar 29, 2012, 12:07:25 PM by The Troubadour »
Troubadour in Vancouver: Scully in a sea of Mulders.

Offline EhJayArr

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 7032
  • Comrade Questions
Re: Pagan rapist cult-leader in training; an advice request
« Reply #1 on: Mar 29, 2012, 11:57:57 AM »
Wow. All I can say is good luck.

If secrecy is important, consider deleting/copy-pasting this post and putting it in explicit, so that won't show up on external search engines.
Strange women lying in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government.

Offline Karyn

  • Forum Sexologist
  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 12216
  • currently recuiting for my lesbian cabal.
    • Fetlife
Re: Pagan rapist cult-leader in training; an advice request
« Reply #2 on: Mar 29, 2012, 01:57:47 PM »
How many people are in the group that are trying to confront him, and how many people does he have groomed?

Can the group consider taking out a restraining order on him, citing sexual harassment?  It would certainly help with establishing a pattern with the police if he decided to get more aggressive.

Have you considered contacting a psychiatric hospital to seek advice on how to deal with someone mentally unstable?
http://www.facebook.com/Auzauviir  <-- Play Scrabble with me!

gplus.to/karynwittmeyer

Offline The Troubadour

  • Off to a Start
  • *
  • Posts: 83
Re: Pagan rapist cult-leader in training; an advice request
« Reply #3 on: Mar 29, 2012, 02:27:36 PM »
Hi Karyn.  There's projected to be about 10 people there, maybe 15, maybe 8.  I believe he has two people fully indoctrinated, one failed attempt at a level-headed sceptic, and two people who don't know what's happening but think they're protecting democracy by protecting him. 

I have in mind the possibility of a restraining order on him if things go poorly or if he threatens anyone.  We're also planning to potentially draft a private letter to leaders of the other community's worldwide, to prevent the catholic-shuffle trick of moving to another city once identified as a sexual predator, all without risking libel law. 

My wife is expert at dealing with people with mental health issues, criminally or benignly, and she's been researching resources to rehabilitate the unstable, especially sexual predators. 

Thanks so much for your thoughts.
Troubadour in Vancouver: Scully in a sea of Mulders.

Offline The Troubadour

  • Off to a Start
  • *
  • Posts: 83
Re: Pagan rapist cult-leader in training; an advice request
« Reply #4 on: Apr 03, 2012, 05:30:12 PM »
You guys will probably have some worthwhile thoughts at this juncture. 

The meeting was had.  It turned out his cult was a myth: he pretended to have enormous support to scare us into silence.  He attempted to bring people over to his side, and they believed his myths about persecution; that is, until the story of rape came out.  People - especially women - will generally choose priorities stringently when it becomes a matter of sexual victimization.  He's clearly pathologically deluded, because since the call-out, he's decided that the survivor of his sexual assault (and the 6 more who have come forward as victims of rape of his) is part of a giant conspiracy to prevent him from being on the Rules Committee of our organization.  That's right, he's declared that seven people are going through the grueling experience of coming forward as rape survivors in order to remove him from a sub-committee of our little club. 

Here's the problem.  His mother is in denial and is allegedly investigating possible legal action against the prime survivor - or possibly our organization - for libel, slander, or defamation. 

I remember about Simon Singh's giant victory in Britain, but I'm just double-checking, there's no possible way, right?
Troubadour in Vancouver: Scully in a sea of Mulders.

Offline Karyn

  • Forum Sexologist
  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 12216
  • currently recuiting for my lesbian cabal.
    • Fetlife
Re: Pagan rapist cult-leader in training; an advice request
« Reply #5 on: Apr 03, 2012, 05:36:21 PM »
I seriously doubt that would pass in Canada, besides that's a weak tactic, usually only meant to scare people into silence.  I seriously doubt she could find a lawyer to take that case, especially since it's a he said/she said thing for the most part.
http://www.facebook.com/Auzauviir  <-- Play Scrabble with me!

gplus.to/karynwittmeyer

Offline Samhain

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 157
Re: Pagan rapist cult-leader in training; an advice request
« Reply #6 on: Apr 03, 2012, 05:55:00 PM »
Have the victims gone to the police yet?  If he is charged he can have conditions placed on a recognizance order or undertaking to have no contact, direct or indirect with the victims.  He may also have a record with prior convictions for this.

I work in the criminal justice system and agree with Karyn, the slander threat is usually just that.  I've never seen a case of anything coming out of it. 

As for resources to rehabilitate unstable sexual predators.  I don't think you will find much of anything of any worth unless he is sentenced, and directed to court sanctioned treatment.

Offline Ajzzz

  • Well Established
  • *****
  • Posts: 1010
Re: Pagan rapist cult-leader in training; an advice request
« Reply #7 on: Apr 03, 2012, 06:47:44 PM »
...as most people think rape just means physical force...

It means the threat of physical force or physical force, except in the case of statutory rape, which is a bit of a misnomer but is as serious a crime and can actually describe rape. I'd be surprised if someone couldn't sue for libel against accusations of rape in Canada when the crime is sexual harassment or something else. Words are meanings carriers, you can use them to mean whatever you want, and many communities indeed do use words to mean very different things from other communities, but it would be hard to argue that it wasn't libel if you were to tell most people, that you admit define the word differently, that someone has committed rape. Anti-abortion campaigners and animal rights advocates seem to get away with calling others "murderers" when clearly they're not, but that's probably because everybody knows what they mean.

Offline The Troubadour

  • Off to a Start
  • *
  • Posts: 83
Re: Pagan rapist cult-leader in training; an advice request
« Reply #8 on: Apr 03, 2012, 10:29:55 PM »
Not quite, that's even narrower than what the current law states; in Canada, at least, sexual assault is "sexual contact with another person without that other person's consent", whereas consent is defined defined in section 273.1(1) as "the voluntary agreement of the complainant to engage in the sexual activity in question". 

If someone says "no" to sex and then the person does it anyways, even if the person freezes and counterreacts no more than a person saying yes, that's still criminal behaviour. 

(That being said, the one good thing about this "sexual assault" re-definition is that saying "he raped me" is not technically an accusation of a crime, and we can deploy more inclusive definitions such as utilizing harassment or blackmail to turn a No into a Yes.) 

The survivors in my community feel so betrayed by the larger society right now, that the law would rather err on the side of an accused's good name than a person's safety against sexual violation.
« Last Edit: Apr 03, 2012, 11:55:13 PM by The Troubadour »
Troubadour in Vancouver: Scully in a sea of Mulders.

Online random poet

  • Seasoned Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 989
  • Seasoned with our secret mix of herbs and spices.
    • I have an LJ
Re: Pagan rapist cult-leader in training; an advice request
« Reply #9 on: Apr 04, 2012, 12:30:36 AM »
I am also into slam poetry (in Montreal). I am not as involved as you are, I don't organize anything or sit in committees anymore, but I go to slams and participate as often as possible. I am absolutely appalled that someone would use such a great movement in the way this person has. What a despicable, pathological way of dealing with people. And I'm horrified to think that this guy might decide to move to another town and terrorize another slam community.

I really hope something can be done. Surely if his victims go to the police they won't be ignored? Especially if there are 7 of them. The cops can force him to get help. I am glad to hear that his claims of having followers were overblown, at least. There is a bit of hope there.

Like others have said, I wouldn't worry about the libel suit. This isn't the U.K., and our laws aren't quite as skewed in the plaintiff's favour. Plus they'd have to be able to prove your claims are false (if it's the truth, it's not slander!).
Pakistan’s foreign Ministry spokesperson said that “anyone who describes Islam as a religion as intolerant encourages violence.” Remember folks: Islam is the religion of peace, and if you don't agree, WE'LL KILL YOU.

Offline The Troubadour

  • Off to a Start
  • *
  • Posts: 83
Re: Pagan rapist cult-leader in training; an advice request
« Reply #10 on: Apr 04, 2012, 12:37:53 AM »
Thank you for your thoughts, Poet.  Cheers from Vancouver!  Historically, going to the police regarding sexual violence is very unsuccessful in most cases, as definitions rely on subjective criteria and incidents usually happen in private areas like bedrooms or cars.  Acquiring a conviction would not be likely, perhaps even a charge.  As for libel, if memory serves, the plaintiff's onus is to prove that the claim has caused a harm in the way of defamation and quality of life, whereas the defendent's onus is to prove that the claim in question is true.  That's extremely problematic for victims, that are thus de facto compelled to be silent about being a victim of any crime they can't prove, for fear of being punished by civil court.  It's an atrocity.  However, seven stories is very powerful on a community level. 

On the plus side, making a libel case out of this would make it an extremely public affair.  I doubt that step would be taken. 
Troubadour in Vancouver: Scully in a sea of Mulders.

Offline Samhain

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 157
Re: Pagan rapist cult-leader in training; an advice request
« Reply #11 on: Apr 04, 2012, 07:01:29 AM »
The cops can force him to get help.

The police can't do much in the way of getting him help.  If there is a true mental illness, he can be involuntary admitted to a mental health facility for a period of 48 hours to basically stabilize the symptoms of the mental illness. 

As he is innocent until proven guilty, if he were to be charged with seven counts of sexual assault, few agencies would be willing to work with him until there is a conviction because there needs to be discussion of the offenses during treatment.  Even if he were to be sentenced he would also have to be willing to admit his participation in the offenses because most treatment providers will basically say, "not suitable for treatment" with regard to offenders constantly declaring they didn't do anything wrong.

Offline Ajzzz

  • Well Established
  • *****
  • Posts: 1010
Re: Pagan rapist cult-leader in training; an advice request
« Reply #12 on: Apr 04, 2012, 10:00:41 AM »
Not quite, that's even narrower than what the current law states; in Canada, at least, sexual assault is "sexual contact with another person without that other person's consent", whereas consent is defined defined in section 273.1(1) as "the voluntary agreement of the complainant to engage in the sexual activity in question".

While "sexual assault" is rape in some jurisdictions, that doesn't mean that those that use a wider definition for "sexual assault" make rape any contact without that other person's consent. I've always considered "sexual assault" to cover more than just rape, and that's how most people use the term.

If someone says "no" to sex and then the person does it anyways, even if the person freezes and counterreacts no more than a person saying yes, that's still criminal behaviour.

That's still rape, if by sex you mean penetration, if you force yourself on someone, if they're non-resisting, in shock, drugged, or in a coma.

(That being said, the one good thing about this "sexual assault" re-definition is that saying "he raped me" is not technically an accusation of a crime, and we can deploy more inclusive definitions such as utilizing harassment or blackmail to turn a No into a Yes.)

Sexual contact without consent isn't a crime in Canada?

Offline The Troubadour

  • Off to a Start
  • *
  • Posts: 83
Re: Pagan rapist cult-leader in training; an advice request
« Reply #13 on: Apr 04, 2012, 11:49:17 AM »
What I mean is that "rape" is no longer a legal term.  But that was a smaller point.
Troubadour in Vancouver: Scully in a sea of Mulders.

Offline Ajzzz

  • Well Established
  • *****
  • Posts: 1010
Re: Pagan rapist cult-leader in training; an advice request
« Reply #14 on: Apr 04, 2012, 01:10:14 PM »
What I mean is that "rape" is no longer a legal term.  But that was a smaller point.

So you meant "rape is not the technical legal terminology", not "rape is technically not a crime".

I'm interested in what kind of harassment would turn a "no" into a "yes", unless it's actually blackmail, then surely harassment would not lead to a "yes". Legal definitions of harassment are unsatisfactory, meaning that it would be up to a judge or a jury to decide what's harassment and what isn't. Blackmail and other forms of unlawful coercion to get someone to agree under duress to have sexual intercourse is rape.

Any disparity in authority: guardian and ward, employer and employee, and in the case of statutory rape where a teenager in many other circumstances can be considered to give consent, consent would always be under implicit duress.