Topic: Church's dogma contradicts own rules for Easter date

[lukebourassa]

I read this article just to refresh my memory about how the date for Easter is determined each year. What I wasn't expecting was this interesting and facepalm-inducing tidbit:

The first full moon of spring is usually designated as the Paschal Full Moon or the Paschal Term.  Traditionally, Easter is observed on the Sunday after the Paschal Full Moon. If the Paschal Moon occurs on a Sunday, Easter is the following Sunday.

Following these rules, we find that the date of Easter can fall as early as March 22 and as late as April 25. Pope Gregory XIII decreed this in 1582 as part of the Gregorian calendar. So according to the current ecclesiastical rules, Easter Sunday in 2012 is to be celebrated April 8.

Interestingly, these rules also state that the vernal equinox is fixed on March 21, despite the fact that from the years 2008 through 2101, at European longitudes it actually will occur no later than March 20.

Adding additional confusion is that there is also an "ecclesiastical" full moon, determined from ecclesiastical tables, whose date does not necessarily coincide with the "astronomical" full moon, which is based solely on astronomical calculations. In 1981, for example, the full moon occurred on Sunday, April 19, so Easter should have occurred on the following Sunday, April 26. But based on the ecclesiastical full moon, it occurred on the same day of the astronomical full moon, April 19!

Hence, there can sometimes be discrepancies between the ecclesiastical and astronomical versions for dating Easter. In the year 2038, for instance, the equinox will fall on March 20, with a full moon the next day, so astronomically speaking, Easter should fall on March 28 of that year. In reality, however, as mandated by the rules of the church, Easter 2038 will be observed as late as it can possibly come, on April 25.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46977641/ns/technology_and_science-space/

[Halleyscomet/Wakefield]

The ecclesiastical full moon however is not bullshit, but an effort to take into account the fact that the astronomical full moon can vary from one region to the next because of the moon's orbit. It's an artifice so Easter can fall on the same day over the entire Earth, instead of having a different date in different areas.

[Skulker]

Doesn't matter anymore because Easter has been cancelled. They found the body. 

[lukebourassa]

The ecclesiastical full moon however is not bullshit, but an effort to take into account the fact that the astronomical full moon can vary from one region to the next because of the moon's orbit. It's an artifice so Easter can fall on the same day over the entire Earth, instead of having a different date in different areas.

Hmmm..  I retract my Thread then. Fascinating stuff.

CASE CLOSED

[Chew]

The ecclesiastical full moon however is not bullshit, but an effort to take into account the fact that the astronomical full moon can vary from one region to the next because of the moon's orbit.

Say what? Can you explain this in more detail because it doesn't make sense to me. Are you talking about consecutive full moons or the same full moon as seen from different regions?

[Neon Genesis]

Doesn't the bible say Jesus was supposed to be in the tomb three days and three nights, not two nights on the weekend?

[Zytheran]

The ecclesiastical full moon however is not bullshit, but an effort to take into account the fact that the astronomical full moon can vary from one region to the next because of the moon's orbit.

Say what? Can you explain this in more detail because it doesn't make sense to me. Are you talking about consecutive full moons or the same full moon as seen from different regions?

I thought this sounded odd so I read up more on how the date is calculated. BAD MOVE, don't do it, you will go insane as to how stupid the whole Easter timing thing is. anyway..

The full moon occurs when you can draw a straight line from the sun, through the centre of the earth and the centre of the moon. This occurs at an exact moment in time, independent of any time zone on earth. But at any point in time the actual date on earth varies due to time zones. So a full moon might occur when it is 3:45pm on say Friday 3rd at one location but this *exact* point in time might be 2:45am on Saturday 4th at some other location with a larger longitude. So, what date is the full moon on, the 3rd or the 4th?
This dating method addresses that problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computus I think stealing the date for Christmas from the pagans and fixing it was a much better idea than what the morons did for Easter. Like, I knew it was complex but this is bat-shit crazy.

Why do this? Why not just pick a date and be done with it like other religious dates. And it's to do with lunar cycles? Seriously, WTF? Good use for a time machine and a baseball bat. Idiots...but nothing new there I guess.

[Chew]

I know about that. I was asking HC/W to clarify his full moon over different regions due to the moon's orbit comment. I am assuming he meant what you described but I want to verify that.

The eastern orthodox churches are still on the Julian calendar. Most people think everybody shifted to the Gregorian calendar when the pope decreed it and there was much rejoicing. The British Empire didn't shift until 1752. Russia didn't shift until the commie revolution.

[MikeHz]

Doesn't the bible say Jesus was supposed to be in the tomb three days and three nights, not two nights on the weekend?

I've always wondered about that one. Let's see...he supposedly died around three in the afternoon on a Friday. Friday to Saturday: 1 day. Saturday to Sunday: 2 days... Looks to me like they should be celebrating on a Monday.

But, maybe time was different back then in those Bibley days. After all, they did manage to mislay a few billion years...

[Neon Genesis]

Seeing how Jesus' death took place on the week of the Passover, shouldn't the church be basing the dates for Easter on whenever the Jews celebrate Passover?

[Halleyscomet/Wakefield]

I know about that. I was asking HC/W to clarify his full moon over different regions due to the moon's orbit comment. I am assuming he meant what you described but I want to verify that.

Your assumption is correct. I was going for the same idea, but was tired and stated it very poorly.

Seeing how Jesus' death took place on the week of the Passover, shouldn't the church be basing the dates for Easter on whenever the Jews celebrate Passover?

That's due to ancient hatred of the Jews and a desire to minimize the admission of Jewish content in Christian history. It persists to this day. I was in high school before I learned that the Last Supper would have most likely been a Passover Seder.

Doesn't the bible say Jesus was supposed to be in the tomb three days and three nights, not two nights on the weekend?

I've always wondered about that one. Let's see...he supposedly died around three in the afternoon on a Friday. Friday to Saturday: 1 day. Saturday to Sunday: 2 days... Looks to me like they should be celebrating on a Monday.

But, maybe time was different back then in those Bibley days. After all, they did manage to mislay a few billion years...

The day of his death counts as the first day, and the day of his resurrection counts as the third day. Remember that the day of rest began at sunset and ended at sunrise. He died long enough before sunset to be hurriedly interred before the sabbath began at sunset. This means he was dead for a hunk of Friday, all of the Sabbath and rose not long after sunrise on Sunday. His time in the grave therefore included three days, even though two of those days were only partial. He was only dead for about 36 hours or so.

[Shibboleth]

Lots of Christians have a Sedor during holy week.


Is it really that big of a deal when people celebrate Easter? I celebrate it on the 15th this year unlike you Pope calendar users.

[Xptical]

Same as the other holidays.  Find a popular pagan festival, say X happened on that day, wait 2 or 3 generations until it's accepted as fact.

[Shibboleth]

Same as the other holidays.  Find a popular pagan festival, say X happened on that day, wait 2 or 3 generations until it's accepted as fact.

I think that relating Jesus' crucifixion to the time of Passover had more to do with it than anything. I could easily be wrong but I do not think that people were claiming that it was the exact time of Jesus' crucifixion.