Author Topic: Episode #351  (Read 2614 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline AngleWyrm

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 217
Re: Episode #351
« Reply #45 on: Apr 11, 2012, 05:42:05 PM »
... if you would class a UTM as not conscious, but some more complex machine as conscious (such as the human brain, if you accept that it is a machine), then consider what happens between these extremes: is there a gradual emergence of consciousness with increasing complexity, or is there a sudden point at which consciousness becomes possible?

Is an organic brain so different in it's functionality that it cannot be mapped to a Turing Machine? Two arguments against such a mapping that I've seen are that a brain has states that cannot be finitely measured, and that a brain follows patterns that cannot be measured mathematically.

To the first argument, it seems that anything measurable in the real world is essentially analog, a matter of resolution. And resolution becomes meaningless at some point. For instance, we can declare the width of the USA in inches, but it won't be accurate because each second waves and tide change the width. Or we can declare the weight of a chicken egg in micrograms, but almost every egg encountered will not match that weight. A more sophisticated measurement is necessary, perhaps an average with a standard deviation. The expression "A chicken egg weighs 60g +/- 10g" is finite.

The second argument--that the brain follows patterns that cannot be measured mathematically--is purported to be a reference to a famous proof by Godel.
« Last Edit: Apr 11, 2012, 05:50:25 PM by AngleWyrm »

Offline daemonowner

  • Keeps Priorities Straight
  • ***
  • Posts: 461
  • Equal Opportunity Asshole
Re: Episode #351
« Reply #46 on: May 04, 2012, 10:42:14 PM »
Enclothed cognition: How about setting up experiments involving tin foil hats?
“Injecting five rats with really highly concentrated coffee solution caused some changes in cells that might lead to tumours eventually. (Study funded by The Association of Tea Marketing)”

Offline jwray

  • Seasoned Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 771
  • nobody expects the spanish inquisition
Re: Episode #351
« Reply #47 on: Jul 22, 2012, 07:35:25 PM »
Steve's phone book example of what a quantum computer can do differently from ordinary computers is wrong.    What he describes is content-addressable memory [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content-addressable_memory] which already exists in ordinary CPUs' TLBs and cache controllers.  It works by doing the comparisons in parallel.

The real distinction is that quantum computers are supposed to be able to solve NP-complete problems quickly.  These are problems where you can verify the solution quickly but the time required to find a solution is an exponential function of the input size on an ordinary computer.  The best example of this is encryption key cracking.   If a functioning quantum computer is ever created, almost all encryption/authentication will be useless and the the world economy will implode from the resulting shenanigans in banks and stock markets.

But I'll bet anybody $100 that such a computer will never be created.   It's just another bullshit implication of the Copenhagen interpretation, like Schrodinger's cat, to be filed under "reasons why the Copenhagen interpretation is bullshit."

Offline GodSlayer

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 12177
  • Apteryx Pessimistus
Re: Episode #351
« Reply #48 on: Jul 22, 2012, 08:59:31 PM »
Steve's phone book example of what a quantum computer can do differently from ordinary computers is wrong. 

wasn't this addressed in a later episode?
Quote from: La Rochefoucauld
If we had no faults we should not take so much pleasure in noting those of others.