Author Topic: MIL mad at us over religion  (Read 727 times)

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Offline jmars

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MIL mad at us over religion
« on: Apr 13, 2012, 11:34:06 AM »
So on Easter, we invited my husband's parents over to have dinner with us and our three kids. We don't go to church and are not religious and we are raising our children without religion, especially now since they are only 4, 3, and 1. We figure we will not even mention religion until they are older and start to hear it from kids at school, something like that. The point is they are too young to make sense of it and we don't want them to be influenced by others about what they should believe. That, and its too morbid for small children to be thinking about death and the stories from children's Bible books are often morbid and scary.

So we have told our parents about our feelings on introducing the girls to religion this young. And yet on Sunday, we felt that my MIL overstepped her boundary and undermined us. She asked if she could say something before dinner and we said sure, thinking she was just going to sit down and say a prayer and the rest of us would just sit there and not participate, like we usually do and family functions. Well, to our surprise, she grabbed the 3 and 4 year old's hands and led them in prayer, speaking in a sort of baby talk voice talking about how wonderful God is and "thank you for dying on the cross", etc. My husband and I looked at each other in annoyance and the girls had no idea what was going on they were just exited that grandma was holding their hands. We weren't worried about them, we knew they didn't get it anyway. We were mostly annoyed with the intentionally undermining of our position on raising our kids. Does this set precedent? Is it an example of what goes on when we aren't around? Those were the questions going through our heads. We didn't say anything at the time so as not to ruin dinner and to be disrespectful to them, but we felt it needed to be address so my husband wrote her an email. He was a little more harsh than I would have been, but he basically told her that we didn't appreciate her making the girls participate in the prayer and then reiterated our beliefs on raising them without religion. For the record, we also don't tell them there IS no God. Our position will be that its up to them to decide.

Here are parts of her response. I know that she was offended and like many religious people, took it personally that we disagree with her on religion and how children should be raised.

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You don't have to remind me that you are not religious. I know it by your actions. Obviously you don't live by the Ten Commandments, one being to honor your mother and father. I know you are somewhat respectful to us and I am thankful for that. It does make me sad to think that my grandchildren are being kept from our traditions and beliefs. That's part of their heritage. We are not taking them to church, praying with them at our house or teaching them about God or the Bible.

This part made us sort of angry. She suggests that we lead immoral lives when in reality, we are responsible, hard-working, intelligent people and pretty good parents imo. We are "somewhat" respectful to them. I invite them to come over every single week to see our kids even when I don't feel like it and we include them on everything and never say anything about their religion or criticize them for it, so I don't know what the "somewhat" qualifier is for.

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I do pray for you all EVERY day. I love you all. I do hope that my grandchildren know my beliefs some day when they are old enough to wonder and ask because they want to know. And I hope that they do not put a thorn in your heart if they decide not to follow your beliefs. You will still love them of course no matter what, but I guarantee it will make your heart sad.

Go ahead and pray. It's a nice sentiment I guess. I don't mind them knowing her beliefs "someday" either. It's inevitable. Do they have to know them now? At 3 and 4? If they decide not to "follow my beliefs" or lack thereof, there is nothing I can or should do about it. It's not my decision. It's a personal decision. Good for them. I just hope they'd be happy. No thorn in my side unless they get mad if we don't want to participate in their religious practices like this. I would only be sad if they used their beliefs to make decisions about our relationship and that suffered. I would be sad if they decided I was a bad person all of a sudden because I didn't believe in God. That's it.

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I intend to make a life journal of my beliefs and where I came from and why I believe what I believe. You might do the same. Maybe then, I would understand why you believe what you believe or don't believe.

It actually couldn't hurt for him to write her a letter explaining everything about why he doesn't believe. I don't think she has ever heard the arguments against what she believes. I have been candid with my own mother about why I don't believe her religion and she has finally come to at least understand my position even if she disagrees with it. You can't argue the logic, only the need for faith. I explained that I am simply not built that way. She kid of gets it now.

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**** and I are both saddened by the fact that you were so disturbed by me wanting to say a prayer at dinner on the most Holiest Day of the Year that you had to send such an email. It isn't our first disappointment with family and I'm sure not the last. We all live with disappointment and will survive it and carry on as always, just with a heavier heart.

I don't know whether this is an intentional misinterpretation of what he said, but he never said she couldn't pray. He only said he didn't appreciate it that she tried to make the girls actively participate in it. She even told them to say "amen" and waiting until they did. Annoying. We never used the word "disturbed". He said "We didn't mind that you wanted to pray, but when you made the girls participate, it made us uncomfortable."

He already responded, so I'm wondering she's going to send him another one. I told him to just let it go and that maybe he should just write her a letter explaining our beliefs in an articulate way and leave it at that. Not ask her to reply. They came over last night and acted as if everything was fine. But the there was definitely an uneasiness in the air. For the record I hate confrontation.


Online Neon Genesis

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Re: MIL mad at us over religion
« Reply #1 on: Apr 13, 2012, 12:08:11 PM »
Threaten to not let her see the kids every week if she doesn't stop.

Offline Halleyscomet/Wakefield

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Re: MIL mad at us over religion
« Reply #2 on: Apr 13, 2012, 12:08:23 PM »
I'd ask if your mother-in-law was my mother, but I only have one brother and he isn't married.

I know the situation is frustrating. To tell the truth that's entirely too polite and subdued a word. You've had your parenting undermined and attacked, and the woman who did it has in turn responded to your concerns with hostility and recrimination.

In dealing with my own mother on these matters, I've found it helps to remember that her reaction is purely emotional. In her eyes, I'm leading my son to Hell by not raising him in the same religious environment in which I was raised. Just as Gideon used deception to kill the invading army, she probably sees a certain amount of deception as perfectly permissible in trying to save the souls of your children.

Your MIL may not have realized she was aggressively proselytizing. It's possible that she really did think what she did was doing was just a prayer. Even if she knew, at the time, that she was trying to cut you off at the knees, she's no doubt convinced herself that what she did was perfectly innocent. The martyr complex is a remarkably evolved defense. My own mother remembers events not as they happened, but in the way that's convenient for her. This resulted in an outright screaming match this past Christmas. The end result is I will never again pay any attention to anything she says. I've had to accept the fact that my mother is, and probably always has been, delusional and incapable of confronting a reality that challenges what she wants to believe.
"Two great European narcotics, alcohol and Christianity." -Nietzsche

Offline Skulker

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Re: MIL mad at us over religion
« Reply #3 on: Apr 13, 2012, 12:18:32 PM »
Threaten to not let her see the kids every week if she doesn't stop.
^ Don't use the kids as pawns. It will only make it worse.

Trust in the fact that you and your husband will be the best role models for the kids and they will learn what they live not what some crazy old bat tells them.

Offline Xptical

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Re: MIL mad at us over religion
« Reply #4 on: Apr 13, 2012, 12:22:40 PM »
Threaten to not let her see the kids every week if she doesn't stop.

Don't threaten, just make it happen.  Life is too short to deal with a jerky MIL.

Alternatively, set up a giant altar to Vishnu and start leading Hindu prayers when she comes over.

Threaten to not let her see the kids every week if she doesn't stop.
^ Don't use the kids as pawns. It will only make it worse.

It's not using the kids as pawns.  It's about not letting her use them against you.

Offline Skulker

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Re: MIL mad at us over religion
« Reply #5 on: Apr 13, 2012, 12:26:46 PM »
Threaten to not let her see the kids every week if she doesn't stop.

Don't threaten, just make it happen.  Life is too short to deal with a jerky MIL.

Alternatively, set up a giant altar to Vishnu and start leading Hindu prayers when she comes over.

Threaten to not let her see the kids every week if she doesn't stop.
^ Don't use the kids as pawns. It will only make it worse.

It's not using the kids as pawns.  It's about not letting her use them against you.
Sorry, you're wrong. You would be putting the kids in the middle of a pissing contest and things would just escalate.

Offline jmars

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Re: MIL mad at us over religion
« Reply #6 on: Apr 13, 2012, 12:27:55 PM »
I just want to mention that I have no hostility towards her. I love the woman. She has been more of a mother to me in general than my own in a lot of ways lately. She usually doesn't bring up religion around them so it was surprising this time. I am only now wondering if she is starting to feel the pressure to get them involved in her "heritage and tradition".  I understand what HC?wakefield was saying and agree. She feels she is saving their eternal souls at any cost and it's her duty. It's just frustrating that these beliefs make people feel this sort of entitlement or duty to where it interferes with their family relationships.

I could never prevent her from seeing them. Not only am I not that cold, it would only reinforce her attitude about us "not following the 10 commandments". I don't generally like presenting behaviors that reinforce misconceptions.
« Last Edit: Apr 13, 2012, 12:30:41 PM by jmars »

Offline Halleyscomet/Wakefield

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Re: MIL mad at us over religion
« Reply #7 on: Apr 13, 2012, 12:32:32 PM »
Threaten to not let her see the kids every week if she doesn't stop.
^ Don't use the kids as pawns. It will only make it worse.

My mother is not allowed to be with my son unsupervised. It really chafes her that my in-laws are allowed to have him stay for sleepovers and she isn't, but the simple fact is I can trust my in-laws to respect my parenting decisions.

My mother has not been cut out of my son's life. I sometimes regret this. :P

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Trust in the fact that you and your husband will be the best role models for the kids and they will learn what they live not what some crazy old bat tells them.

This past Christmas my mother managed to give my then three and a half year old son an earful about Jesus. He even told my Jewish in-laws that Jesus loves them a few days later. They, to their credit, replied with "That's nice" and changed the topic. After a few days my son stopped bringing up Jesus. At one point I explained that Jesus was part of "religion" and that different people believed different things. He replied with "So religion is imagination?"

"Yea, something like that, but lots of people believe it's real."

"Ohhhhh." He paused for a moment and continued with "Can I have a messy cheese sandwich for dinner?"
"Two great European narcotics, alcohol and Christianity." -Nietzsche

Offline jmars

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Re: MIL mad at us over religion
« Reply #8 on: Apr 13, 2012, 12:35:19 PM »
 :laugh:


Offline ting-bu-dong

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Re: MIL mad at us over religion
« Reply #9 on: Apr 13, 2012, 12:36:58 PM »
I could never prevent her from seeing them. Not only am I not that cold, it would only reinforce her attitude about us "not following the 10 commandments". I don't generally like presenting behaviors that reinforce misconceptions.

It wouldn't actually be a misconception. It is not at all self evident that 'obey your elders' is a categorically good thing, and by making it conditional (the condition being 'don't come into our house, disrespect us and undermine our parenting'), you are in fact violating that particular commandment. This is not to advocate a particular course of action, just pointing out a difference of viewing things that potentially is a source of conflict, which is hard to resolve without acknowledging it.

Online Neon Genesis

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Re: MIL mad at us over religion
« Reply #10 on: Apr 13, 2012, 12:39:05 PM »
Don't use the kids as pawns. It will only make it worse.

Trust in the fact that you and your husband will be the best role models for the kids and they will learn what they live not what some crazy old bat tells them.
Do the kids really need to see their MIL every week that badly anyway unless you need her as a babysitter or something?  When I was a kid, I only saw my grandparents like three or four times a year and that was enough.

Offline Halleyscomet/Wakefield

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Re: MIL mad at us over religion
« Reply #11 on: Apr 13, 2012, 12:45:57 PM »
I understand what HC?wakefield was saying and agree. She feels she is saving their eternal souls at any cost and it's her duty. It's just frustrating that these beliefs make people feel this sort of entitlement or duty to where it interferes with their family relationships

Perhaps a compromise could be found. My wife's family is Jewish, and my son is getting an introduction to his Jewish heritage as a cultural tradition. He has a lot of fun saying the blessing over the bread at Shabbat dinner and had a blast at the quite secular Passover Seder we hosted this past weekend. He sees all these things as community events, things for a family to do together. There is a growing population of secular Jews who still observe many of these religious acts as a community and family event.

I suspect your oldest can handle the concept of people believing things they can't prove, and that different people believe different things.

That said, you can expect your MIL to occasionally overstep whatever bounds you set. I think being prepared for it and preparing your children for it would be wise. As they get older it can even be a lesson in the power of religion, and how it can lead a woman who loves her son, daughter-in-law and grandchildren to undermine and attack instead of acting out of the love in her heart. They'll face religions people eventually.

It took a few years for my mother to stop giving my wife "Jews for Jesus" pamphlets. She honestly did not comprehend how Jews could find the organization offensive.
"Two great European narcotics, alcohol and Christianity." -Nietzsche

Offline jmars

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Re: MIL mad at us over religion
« Reply #12 on: Apr 13, 2012, 12:49:09 PM »
Our kids are very close with them. They ask to see them all the time. It is partly because I have been meeting them every week since the 4 year old was a baby. We actually enjoy spending time with them. They are really good people otherwise. It's the religion that messes things up. And they do help us out a lot with babysitting. About once a month they take all three for a night or two so we can have a date. They will spend the night and have their own set of stuff at their house.

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Re: MIL mad at us over religion
« Reply #13 on: Apr 13, 2012, 12:50:19 PM »

Sorry, you're wrong. You would be putting the kids in the middle of a pissing contest and things would just escalate.
If you spend all your time with your relatives every week, you're going to drive each other insane sooner or later.  You need some downtime just for you and your immediate family too.

Offline Copyleft

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Re: MIL mad at us over religion
« Reply #14 on: Apr 13, 2012, 01:13:44 PM »
Your MIL is definitely a Christian. You can tell because she's got her own cross.

The world's just full of professional martyrs, isn't it?