Topic: Cracked, 5 ways men are taught to hate women

[Johnny Slick]

I still find it weird when people talk about "the Jews" as a race, I never heard it (or realised I was hearing it) until a couple of years ago. It was always just a(nother) religion to me growing up so it sounds as barmy as saying "the Catholic race" to me, although I realise it's not a new thing.

Yeah, there's a bit less intermarriage than there is with Catholicism but that was sort of my point here... for whatever reason (okay, largely things Jewish folks say), we have this image of Jews being a separate race, more Middle Eastern than European. It's certainly a different culture/subculture and sure, there's some Middle Eastern in there, but it's also a subculture which has been all over Europe, North Africa, and the Near East for millenia, and America for centuries. They've also long been a middle-man minority too but I have to be honest that I have never heard anti-Semitic comments except from a. full on robe-wearing bigots who hate everything anyway, ii. people trying to be ironic, and g. black people.

[SVoid]

The conversation is divisive. It's antithetical to reducing prejudice.

Funny. People said the same thing when people were against racial segregation back 50 years ago.

Martin Luther King Jr. was seen as a dangerous and angry radical.

I love how you maintain that it's divisive to point out divisiveness.

[SVoid]

I still find it weird when people talk about "the Jews" as a race, I never heard it (or realised I was hearing it) until a couple of years ago. It was always just a(nother) religion to me growing up so it sounds as barmy as saying "the Catholic race" to me, although I realise it's not a new thing.

Yeah, there's a bit less intermarriage than there is with Catholicism but that was sort of my point here... for whatever reason (okay, largely things Jewish folks say), we have this image of Jews being a separate race, more Middle Eastern than European. It's certainly a different culture/subculture and sure, there's some Middle Eastern in there, but it's also a subculture which has been all over Europe, North Africa, and the Near East for millenia, and America for centuries. They've also long been a middle-man minority too but I have to be honest that I have never heard anti-Semitic comments except from a. full on robe-wearing bigots who hate everything anyway, ii. people trying to be ironic, and g. black people.

Remember, there was no 'white race' before. We made it up as we put aside our differences. The idea of race is socially constructed and has consequences, but is not based on anything. So, yeah, don't be surprised when there are silly definitions of race.

And from another thread, I saw this:



Thought it might be relevant.

[EhJayArr]

The conversation is divisive. It's antithetical to reducing prejudice.

Funny. People said the same thing when people were against racial segregation back 50 years ago.

Martin Luther King Jr. was seen as a dangerous and angry radical.

I love how you maintain that it's divisive to point out divisiveness.

Know who else was a dangerous and angry radical?

[341gerbig]

The conversation is divisive. It's antithetical to reducing prejudice.

Funny. People said the same thing when people were against racial segregation back 50 years ago.

Martin Luther King Jr. was seen as a dangerous and angry radical.

I love how you maintain that it's divisive to point out divisiveness.

Know who else was a dangerous and angry radical?

Strong logic bud....

[EhJayArr]

The conversation is divisive. It's antithetical to reducing prejudice.

Funny. People said the same thing when people were against racial segregation back 50 years ago.

Martin Luther King Jr. was seen as a dangerous and angry radical.

I love how you maintain that it's divisive to point out divisiveness.

Know who else was a dangerous and angry radical?

Strong logic bud....

Fightin' fire with fire.

[341gerbig]

The conversation is divisive. It's antithetical to reducing prejudice.

Funny. People said the same thing when people were against racial segregation back 50 years ago.

Martin Luther King Jr. was seen as a dangerous and angry radical.

I love how you maintain that it's divisive to point out divisiveness.

Know who else was a dangerous and angry radical?

Strong logic bud....

Fightin' fire with fire.

I suppose, this whole discussion has devolved anyways

[Johnny Slick]

The conversation is divisive. It's antithetical to reducing prejudice.

Funny. People said the same thing when people were against racial segregation back 50 years ago.

Martin Luther King Jr. was seen as a dangerous and angry radical.

I love how you maintain that it's divisive to point out divisiveness.

Know who else was a dangerous and angry radical?

Strong logic bud....

Fightin' fire with fire.

You know that I for one generally invoke Godwin ironically, as in when I don't think there's actually a good case to be made for the other side, right?

[DRmeg378]

I thought that was what AJR was doing until now you've made me doubt.

[Johnny Slick]

I'm willing to be wrong in that interpretation. Feb, if you're ceding the field, I'm not going to gloat about it. Too much! 

[EhJayArr]

Fiiiiine I'll explain it for y'all.



EhJayArr: I think making a big deal about assumptions and generalizations regarding bigotry and prejudice is counterproductive and deepens the aesthetic divisions.

SVoid: Some people thought that MLK was reinforcing racial divisions.

EhJayArr: Reverse Godwinned!

[Johnny Slick]

Again, I'm not seeing how that doesn't cede the territory on your part. Which, thanks, I guess?

[DRmeg378]

I think he's saying that appealing to MLK is kind of the same as appealing to Hitler, as the former is almost beyond reproach, as the latter is beyond redemption.

[Johnny Slick]

Right, but I don't see the parallel here. What's being invoked isn't MLK's beatitude per se but the fact that he raised uncomfortable questions about racism during his time, questions people like AJR wouldn't have liked 60 years ago because they were "divisive". My point, and I think SVoid's point as well, is that the world is divisive and pointing out said divisive elements we may not have been aware of before potentially brings us together, not further apart.

[DRmeg378]

I agree with your point, as I think is clear. Just trying to provide a charitable interpretation of the Godwinesque response.