Topic: Fitness myths.

[Alex Simmons]

I'm keen to read Tim Noakes new book "Challrnging Beliefs".  Slam dunks some fitness myths with 30 years of fitness research.

Noakes promotes some of his own beliefs, specifically the central governor theory. I'm not really buying that one.

[Alex Simmons]

I left the myth of needing carbs to fuel my exercise a long time ago.  Good idea in a tough race, but I (until recently) did a humongous amount of exercise taking in less than 100 gms of carbs a day.  Like Cog, I really like working out in a fasted state in the AM.  When you learn to burn fat primarily, it rocks.  The only problem is that one seldom gets hungry...

The body already knows how.  It's had a couple of millions years to work it out.

[jt512]

...stretching's a big one. I know there's that idea that you should stretch out really heavily before and after every workout but in reality overstretching can actually cause damage in and of itself.

i can second this one.  studies have shown that stretching can cause damaging microtears in muscle.  i had a hard time giving up stretching before running but it seems it is probably just better to walk for a few minutes beforehand and/or start into your run or any workout routine more slowly.  the human body has evolved very well to be able to handle a workout sans the stretching.

Yeah, the advice these days is to stretch afterwards. For weight lifting at least, static stretching prior to exercise actually reduces performance. Something to do with reduced elasticity.

  I'm not a body builder, but I always thought you want to take in the right proportion of protein and carbs within 30min of finishing your work out for maximum effect. 

  That is bro science woo, they have done studies on duration of time between the end of the workout and the post workout meal and they found no correlation between muscle growth, reduction of next day muscle soreness, recovery time, improved fitness over time etc and have found no correlation.

Can you post a reference to peer review research that says that there is no benefit to consuming a mixture of carbohydrate and protein shortly after exercise?  I have zero exposure to bro science; however, I've read several peer review articles sating that the timing and composition of post-exercise intake is important for optimal recovery. 

ETA: One example among many that seems to contradict your claim: 

Curr Sports Med Rep. 2008 Jul-Aug;7(4):193-201. 

Recovery nutrition: timing and composition after endurance exercise.

Millard-Stafford M, Childers WL, Conger SA, Kampfer AJ, Rahnert JA.

Consumption of macronutrients, particularly carbohydrate (CHO) and possibly a small amount of protein, in the early recovery phase after endurance exercise can enhance muscle glycogen resynthesis rates. A target of at least 1.2 g x kg body weight(-1) x h(-1) CHO (over several hours) is suggested. This rate of CHO intake could be sustained with liquid, gel, or solid food rich in CHO for maximizing muscle glycogen. Whether the coingestion of protein with CHO compared with isocaloric CHO results in meaningful differences in glycogen replenishment that translate into subsequent performance enhancement is equivocal. Advantages of added protein with CHO in reducing true muscle damage from endurance exercise remain to be verified. There are, however, no apparent contraindications for using milk or specialty CHO/protein/amino acid products either. Future investigations that examine signaling mechanisms within muscle should be conducted in parallel with translational evidence in humans.

Jay

How does faster glycogen resynthesis contradict the claim?

Glycogen resynthesis is a (the?) crucial component of recovery.

But I'm not interested in a debate here.  I'm interested in research about the effect of nutrition on recovery from exercise.  Your claim implies that the usual advice to consume a protein–carbohydrate combination shortly after exercise is worthless.  If you can cite literature to support that claim, it would be very helpful.

Jay

[Plastique]

Glycogen resynthesis is a (the?) crucial component of recovery.

But I'm not interested in a debate here.  I'm interested in research about the effect of nutrition on recovery from exercise.  Your claim implies that the usual advice to consume a protein–carbohydrate combination shortly after exercise is worthless.  If you can cite literature to support that claim, it would be very helpful.

Jay

Actually, I made no such claim (but relax, I'm not looking for a fight for the sake of it, either).

But I did assume you were relating that glycogen resynthesis info to all of the things 341gerbig mentioned, ie, muscle growth, muscle soreness, recovery time, and improved fitness, with muscle building in mind, whereas the study seems to be dealing only with endurance exercise and specifically recovery (and potentially improved fitness). Hasty reading on my part.

Incidentally, I think real-world studies with athletes are the most useful. The fitness industry is littered with studies showing altered levels of all sorts of different bodily chemicals that ultimately have little bearing on body composition or performance.

[Lukas]

I have heard several runners claim that after a long run you should sit in cold water for a few minutes, preferably right after finishing it, to reduce next day muscle soreness. I did this after one 20k trail run (with lots of ups and downs), sat in a cold mountain stream for 5-10 minutes, and indeed I was not sore the next day, but I have no idea whether the claim is true. Maybe I just didn't run hard enough...

[Cognoscento]

I have heard several runners claim that after a long run you should sit in cold water for a few minutes, preferably right after finishing it, to reduce next day muscle soreness. I did this after one 20k trail run (with lots of ups and downs), sat in a cold mountain stream for 5-10 minutes, and indeed I was not sore the next day, but I have no idea whether the claim is true. Maybe I just didn't run hard enough...

Ice baths are the bomb!  Frankly, I couldn't care less what studies show. Every time I've soaked in an ice bath after a really hard effort, I've felt MUCH better for the rest of the day and soreness for the next 2 days was significantly reduced compared to the times where I didn't use the ice bath.

[Alex Simmons]

I have heard several runners claim that after a long run you should sit in cold water for a few minutes, preferably right after finishing it, to reduce next day muscle soreness. I did this after one 20k trail run (with lots of ups and downs), sat in a cold mountain stream for 5-10 minutes, and indeed I was not sore the next day, but I have no idea whether the claim is true. Maybe I just didn't run hard enough...

Ice baths are the bomb!  Frankly, I couldn't care less what studies show. Every time I've soaked in an ice bath after a really hard effort, I've felt MUCH better for the rest of the day and soreness for the next 2 days was significantly reduced compared to the times where I didn't use the ice bath.

It might be different for running v cycling, but the balance of research as I understand it suggests it does not need to be ice, just cold, ~ 13-15C, and that alternate hot/cold water immersion is also a valid recovery aid strategy.

Need to make a distinction here as well between the effect of the water's temperature, from the hydrostatic pressure when your legs are well underwater (as in a standing position with full body immersion (head out for breathing!).  On the latter point, legs well under water provides significantly more pressure than the typical compression garment by the sports wear manufacturers such as Skins / 2XU etc.

[MikeHz]

I've seen guys in the gym work out in heavy clothing, even on hot summer days, with the idea of "sweating it off."

[Johnny Slick]

When I wrestled, the lower-weight guys used to work out before their matches wearing rubber suits. That always struck me as MEGA gross and I don't think terribly useful except to shed a couple pounds of water so they could wrestle that night (fortunately I wrestled heavyweight which is a whole different world for that kind of thing unless you're close to 275 for some reason, which I was not).

[Plastique]

You might make a weight class as a result, but it seems like a fantastic way to exhaust your energy before you really need it.

[lonely moa]

Nothing inherently wrong with losing water from one's body mass.  Elite marathon runners lose up to 10% of their body weight (in water) during a race.  It is an advantage.  There is no loss of power or strength, only body mass which contributes to their effeciency of running.  There is a certain South  African physiciabn (et al) that has (have) been studying this for three decades, as well as running with them.

[Plastique]

Nothing inherently wrong with losing water from one's body mass.  Elite marathon runners lose up to 10% of their body weight (in water) during a race.  It is an advantage.  There is no loss of power or strength, only body mass which contributes to their effeciency of running.  There is a certain South  African physiciabn (et al) that has (have) been studying this for three decades, as well as running with them.

You think dehydration has no deleterious effect on performance?

[lonely moa]

Nothing inherently wrong with losing water from one's body mass.  Elite marathon runners lose up to 10% of their body weight (in water) during a race.  It is an advantage.  There is no loss of power or strength, only body mass which contributes to their effeciency of running.  There is a certain South  African physiciabn (et al) that has (have) been studying this for three decades, as well as running with them.

You think dehydration has no deleterious effect on performance?

You should hear Dr Noakes on dehydration... these athletes, in his medical opinion, are not dehydrated. 

[Plastique]

Nothing inherently wrong with losing water from one's body mass.  Elite marathon runners lose up to 10% of their body weight (in water) during a race.  It is an advantage.  There is no loss of power or strength, only body mass which contributes to their effeciency of running.  There is a certain South  African physiciabn (et al) that has (have) been studying this for three decades, as well as running with them.

You think dehydration has no deleterious effect on performance?

You should hear Dr Noakes on dehydration... these athletes, in his medical opinion, are not dehydrated.

Dehydration has very little bearing on what I choose to do physically, so I haven't done any research on it, but losing 10% of body weight in fluid sounds significant.

[jt512]

Nothing inherently wrong with losing water from one's body mass.  Elite marathon runners lose up to 10% of their body weight (in water) during a race.  It is an advantage.  There is no loss of power or strength, only body mass which contributes to their effeciency of running.  There is a certain South  African physiciabn (et al) that has (have) been studying this for three decades, as well as running with them.

Translation: People on high-protein diets lose body water.  Therefore, losing body water must be good for you.

Jay