Author Topic: Non-Religious Conversion Reactions (Angry / Sad)?  (Read 651 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Desert Fox

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 5260
  • Hopeful Non-Theist
    • Kitsune's Web Page
Non-Religious Conversion Reactions (Angry / Sad)?
« on: Apr 20, 2012, 08:14:44 PM »
Let me try redoing the thread a bit here. Hard to word very well.

You often hear from the religious an almost fear that losing religious belief causes some type of intrinsic loss inside the person.  That their life will lose meaning and that the person will be angry or sad over this loss.

Further, has anybody spoken to a non believer who is actively angry (or sad) about having lost their belief? That they wish they could go back to believing once again?

Most that I have listened to feel that they have gained something instead and seem generally happier about it. Not saying that nobody who have lost their religious belief feel they lost something but suspect it is extremely rare.

« Last Edit: Apr 21, 2012, 12:39:59 PM by Desert Fox »
"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
— Robert G. Ingersoll

Offline JD Holwick

  • Off to a Start
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Non-Religious Conversion Reactions?
« Reply #1 on: Apr 20, 2012, 10:36:49 PM »
if i am understanding your question correctly, i can say from my own experience that my conversion from theism to atheism was a slow and gradual process (with many oddities in belief along the way) and i certainly didn't act with hostility or anger towards the process.  in fact, i quite welcomed the change and i now find it much more natural and fulfilling to be an atheist than i ever did believing in god.  ---  jd
"what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." ~ christopher hitchens

Offline Desert Fox

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 5260
  • Hopeful Non-Theist
    • Kitsune's Web Page
Re: Non-Religious Conversion Reactions (Angry / Sad)?
« Reply #2 on: Apr 21, 2012, 12:41:04 PM »
I tried rewording so it makes more sense. . .

Your answer though is basically what I asked
"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
— Robert G. Ingersoll

Offline mjtolsma

  • Brand New
  • Posts: 9
Re: Non-Religious Conversion Reactions (Angry / Sad)?
« Reply #3 on: Apr 21, 2012, 12:49:06 PM »
The now atheist persons I've spoken to mostly tell that they almost feel lied to when they were younger. They absolutely feel more satisfied nowadays.

Online seaotter

  • Drunkenly yelling LITTLE WING!
  • Planetary Skeptic
  • *
  • Posts: 28570
  • My homunculus bugs me.
Re: Non-Religious Conversion Reactions (Angry / Sad)?
« Reply #4 on: Apr 21, 2012, 01:09:25 PM »
Once you take the red pill....

He'll, I don't know, I've never believed.
"There is no use trying," said Alice; "one can't believe impossible things." Lewis Carroll

Offline nsfwjonathan

  • Off to a Start
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • Another guy that thinks he knows better XD
    • Smartass, Musician, Skeptic
Re: Non-Religious Conversion Reactions (Angry / Sad)?
« Reply #5 on: Apr 22, 2012, 12:31:48 AM »
I've never met someone that was unhappy with any conversion that stayed in that position for any amount of time.  Constantly, I'm stopping myself in some debates because I remember how sure I felt when i was a believer - and it's a sure as I feel right now ;)

That said, my stepping away from superstition wasn't easy.  While I'm not sure if I should be, I feel rather ashamed that i still cling to the hope of an afterlife.  Quite a powerful belief in my life for varying reasons (some being quite obvious).  I feel like this question may be more about how people commit to changing their minds for fear of being wrong after the fact, maybe?

Offline Desert Fox

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 5260
  • Hopeful Non-Theist
    • Kitsune's Web Page
Re: Non-Religious Conversion Reactions (Angry / Sad)?
« Reply #6 on: Apr 22, 2012, 03:55:55 AM »
Fear of death is hard to deal with. . .
Probably the hardest thing was dealing with that
Trouble is that I think it was harder as a (nominal) believer.
I guess I kind of knew I was lying to myself and so bothered me a lot.
Facing that I am just gone when I die has helped.

In fact I use a biblical signature in another forum
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
— Robert G. Ingersoll

Offline lorryfach

  • Seasoned Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 592
    • Altered Sky
Re: Non-Religious Conversion Reactions (Angry / Sad)?
« Reply #7 on: Apr 22, 2012, 06:32:34 AM »
I don't know about a more constant anger/sadness, but I know that it's not uncommon to react with sadness in the face of certain events. e.g. I see this kind of thing on atheist forums ALL. THE. TIME: "[My friend/my friend's child/my awesome relative] [died/got cancer/became critically injured] and I really wish I believed [there was a heaven for them to go to/there were some greater meaning or purpose behind it]." I also see more vague statements like "I wish there were a god" but rarely with an explanation of why. These sentiments always stand out to me because I don't get it at all, but I keep seeing it.
Hej. - http://www.facebook.com/lorryfach - http://twitter.com/#/lorryfach
lorryfach on Draw Something/Words With Friends/wordfeud (EN or DK)

Online seaotter

  • Drunkenly yelling LITTLE WING!
  • Planetary Skeptic
  • *
  • Posts: 28570
  • My homunculus bugs me.
Re: Non-Religious Conversion Reactions (Angry / Sad)?
« Reply #8 on: Apr 22, 2012, 09:11:14 AM »
Y'all have to listen to Dan savage on this subject in the latest this American life. It's hilarious but you will also cry.
"There is no use trying," said Alice; "one can't believe impossible things." Lewis Carroll

Offline nsfwjonathan

  • Off to a Start
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • Another guy that thinks he knows better XD
    • Smartass, Musician, Skeptic
Re: Non-Religious Conversion Reactions (Angry / Sad)?
« Reply #9 on: Apr 22, 2012, 04:30:42 PM »
I don't know about a more constant anger/sadness, but I know that it's not uncommon to react with sadness in the face of certain events. e.g. I see this kind of thing on atheist forums ALL. THE. TIME: "[My friend/my friend's child/my awesome relative] [died/got cancer/became critically injured] and I really wish I believed [there was a heaven for them to go to/there were some greater meaning or purpose behind it]." I also see more vague statements like "I wish there were a god" but rarely with an explanation of why. These sentiments always stand out to me because I don't get it at all, but I keep seeing it.

While I'm not an atheist, my belief in the after life is hanging on by the most improbable of strings (see what I did there?).  If I'm going to explain the stuff you described seeing on atheist forums, here is how it would work in my own head:

Let's say my four year old nephew died for cancer.  I would be pissed, sad, devastated to my core.  I'd likely cry silently at night, clawing at my own  chest for the lost hope of some wonderful afterlife for this child I cherish so deeply.  I would want 'god' to give him absolute comfort after having died such a terrible death.

We all seem to  brought up with certain concepts of 'justice,' and discovering that there is probably no ultimate justice (and I don't mean hell).  The child that is kidnapped and torture raped to death's last thought EVER is of complete fear, pain, misery and confusion.

That's probably the #1 reason I yearn for an afterlife.

Offline norcalclimber

  • Keeps Priorities Straight
  • ***
  • Posts: 370
    • Cosher Cabinets
Re: Non-Religious Conversion Reactions (Angry / Sad)?
« Reply #10 on: Apr 25, 2012, 09:20:48 AM »
My girlfriend is going through this right now. Her mom died a couple weeks ago... her mom was only 64, but had been dealing with serious medical issues for several years. My girlfriend has been furious with me at times since this happened because she feels that I took away her comfort. She wants to believe her mom is in a better place, but she can't convince herself of that any more. When we first met she believed in god, but has become an atheist through discussion with me so she blames me for taking away the comfort offered by the promise of an afterlife.


Offline seamas

  • Well Established
  • *****
  • Posts: 1663
Re: Non-Religious Conversion Reactions (Angry / Sad)?
« Reply #11 on: Apr 25, 2012, 09:51:27 AM »
I think there are a lot of atheists--or folks who call themselves atheist, who never really kicked the habit of faith.
They just dropped one crusade to take up another. They are the ones with the evangelical zeal--the ones the Religious folks are referring to when they claim "Athesim is a religion".

I didn't actually go that route. My route was not a rejection of god(s), but a confrontation with faith itself.

I was raised --as are most Christians--to worship  faith almost as much as god,  Jesus or Bible stories.

"Faith will set you free"
"You got to have Faith" "Ya gotta believe".

It is a VERY pervasive phenomenon in our society where faith is in and of itself a virtue.
Just go to almost any knick-nack home decor place and you will see "Faith" and "Believe" etched in garden stones or embroidered on pillows or as framed paintings.

We can observe the very large numbers of people --especially in the USA--who have left the traditional religions, but could not let go of belief, or religion.
They will say things like "I don't believe in organized religion but…" as if it makes them thoughful. Or they adopt the new-age Wiccan crap, Scientology or other super-woo.

"Fighting for one's beliefs" is considered honorable no matter what the belief is. If I have heard it once I have heard it a thousand times in regard to the CSA.


And running counter to this is the observation that merely having faith in something or believing something does nothing. I have no windows in my office. My only way of knowing if it is raining outside is to go out and observe --believing one way or another will not change the weather.

And of course, in Christianity--especially in protestantism--there is no sin worse than lack of faith.
I can commit unspeakable crimes and find forgiveness through faith--and receive the Lord's favor in the afterlife.

Or
I can be a kind, generous, thoughtful person --yet be condemned to an eternity of suffering because I lack faith.

Lack of faith is unforgiveable.



Offline Desert Fox

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 5260
  • Hopeful Non-Theist
    • Kitsune's Web Page
Re: Non-Religious Conversion Reactions (Angry / Sad)?
« Reply #12 on: Apr 25, 2012, 11:41:09 AM »
My girlfriend is going through this right now. Her mom died a couple weeks ago... her mom was only 64, but had been dealing with serious medical issues for several years. My girlfriend has been furious with me at times since this happened because she feels that I took away her comfort. She wants to believe her mom is in a better place, but she can't convince herself of that any more. When we first met she believed in god, but has become an atheist through discussion with me so she blames me for taking away the comfort offered by the promise of an afterlife.

Might want to try Julia Sweeney's "Letting go of God" to help with accepting. . .It helped me a lot with my philosophical underpinnings of my disbelief. Helped me put everything in perspective.

How long has she not beleved? 
"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
— Robert G. Ingersoll

Offline norcalclimber

  • Keeps Priorities Straight
  • ***
  • Posts: 370
    • Cosher Cabinets
Re: Non-Religious Conversion Reactions (Angry / Sad)?
« Reply #13 on: Apr 27, 2012, 06:00:32 PM »
My girlfriend is going through this right now. Her mom died a couple weeks ago... her mom was only 64, but had been dealing with serious medical issues for several years. My girlfriend has been furious with me at times since this happened because she feels that I took away her comfort. She wants to believe her mom is in a better place, but she can't convince herself of that any more. When we first met she believed in god, but has become an atheist through discussion with me so she blames me for taking away the comfort offered by the promise of an afterlife.

Might want to try Julia Sweeney's "Letting go of God" to help with accepting. . .It helped me a lot with my philosophical underpinnings of my disbelief. Helped me put everything in perspective.

How long has she not beleved?

Thanks, I will have to check that out.

She has only recently become a nonbeliever, about six months ago. I don't blame her for struggling witb death, I still struggle with it and have been an atheist for several years.

Offline Desert Fox

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 5260
  • Hopeful Non-Theist
    • Kitsune's Web Page
Re: Non-Religious Conversion Reactions (Angry / Sad)?
« Reply #14 on: Apr 27, 2012, 10:41:08 PM »
You can find videos of my of her show on youtube and other sources. I actually bought the CD to listen to while driving.

I have only been an atheist for about four years myself. I was never angry but there was some confusion where I did ask "but" to myself. When everything is going wrong and you think that you are due for fate giving you a better hand. Then you realize "No, that does not follow."
"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
— Robert G. Ingersoll

 

personate-rain