Topic: Court & Religious Oaths - Force the issue?

[Desert Fox]

I was in court last week on a relatively minor traffic item

There was an oath during the court which involved "god." At least it did not have anything like "Jesus, our lord and savior."

I did not want to make the situation more serious by forcing the issue. Cannot really afford several hundred dollars worth of extra fines if nothing else by pissing off the judge.

So, should we force the issue?

[Guillermo]

Where did that oath come from. And what happens when people believe other things?

[Desert Fox]

Where did that oath come from. And what happens when people believe other things?

Judge states it and you have to answer "Yes." If I had to state "So help me god," might have reacted differently.

[Vincegamer]

what jurisdiction?  How did it work into the oath, and did you have a lawyer?

[Desert Fox]

Virginia Beach Traffic Court. . . .
I am more arguing specifically the issue of the way oaths are in the courts and what should reactions be.
Minor enough cases that a lawyer would have just meant additional fees

I believe is was something like this "Do you swear / affirm to tell the truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?"
Just have to say "Yes"

[Eternally Learning]

Definitely seems like one of those things where you have to really know your legal shit or just be damned lucky to get pull something like that and not face negative consequences of some sort (i.e. a judge being less lenient).  Isn't it possible though to request or demand an alternate judge if you can show that you are being unfairly discriminated against?  No idea if that holds true for traffic court, or to what level it's true elsewhere though.

[Desert Fox]

Biggest thing is that you are swearing an oath yet are in the grey area of almost lying when you say "Yes"

[Eternally Learning]

Biggest thing is that you are swearing an oath yet are in the grey area of almost lying when you say "Yes"

It's still a long shot that they'll see it your way and not just think you're a dirty atheist worth their condemnation.

[Vincegamer]

If you want to make a point without painting too big a target on yourself, answer "I so affirm".
VA Beach is pretty conservative (read religious) so might be tough to get reform.  In most urban Maryland courts I'd probably go along with it then send a letter to the judge afterwards letting him know I felt his oath infringed upon my religious liberty.

[Desert Fox]

Now that I am no longer on the hot seat, should I write a respectful letter to the court?
If so, any suggests what I should write?

Edit: Should add that I had to rive by Regent University to get to the court house so it damn sure is religious

[Vincegamer]

I guess that depends on whether you think you will ever encounter that court again.
Another possibility is writing a letter to the administrative judge of the court. There's generally one judge whose job is to set the schedules of the other judges and handle schedule change motions who might also be in a position to address the other judges as to the proper oath.

[H. Drummond]

Don't most jurisdictions have an alternative to an oath for those whose religious convictions keep them from taking an oath?  Quakers and Mennonites, at least, I think, do not swear oaths. 

My jurisdiction says "on penalty of perjury" instead of "so help me God" as part of the general swearing-in process, so I haven't seen anyone make a religious objection, but I also haven't come across a non-oath-taker yet, so I'm not sure what happens here.

[Desert Fox]

No, they do not. . .

I kind of think that "on penalty of perjury" is a better way of wording it

[jmars]

I hope that one day, the President of the United States swears in on the constitution, not the Bible. It makes much more sense, does it not. Not to mention that many of the presidents were secularists.

The only two Presidents to not use the Bible were Teddy Roosevelt and John Q. Adams (two of my favorites).

[seamas]

I hope that one day, the President of the United States swears in on the constitution, not the Bible. It makes much more sense, does it not. Not to mention that many of the presidents were secularists.

The only two Presidents to not use the Bible were Teddy Roosevelt and John Q. Adams (two of my favorites).

I believe Nixon also declared "I affirm", as he was Quaker.