Author Topic: The Skeptic's Guide to Psychiatry/Psychology (and or mental health/illness)  (Read 2568 times)

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Offline WC

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The title says it all. Folks, help us out with resources, experiences, advice, and so forth. Input with a skeptical/sciency and evidence based bent (of course :P)

Personal anecdotes should go here. We should focus on skepticism/science talk here. This thread should be for;

discussing more general concepts around the validity of treatments and diagnosing.
« Last Edit: Jun 10, 2012, 05:55:43 PM by WC »

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I told my shrink that I've been having a recurring nightmare that bicyclists keep riding over me. My shrink said it's because I'm a cycle path.


Offline WC

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I see what you did there.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 01:56:09 PM by Wicked Combover »

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Did I tell you about the dream where I was a WigWam and then a TeePee? The shrink said I was too tents and to try to relax.

Offline Lancezh

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I got rid of my psychologist after i realized he believes in Psychics.
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Offline WC

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I got rid of my psychologist after i realized he believes in Psychics.
I can't tell you how many I've had to get rid of because of their crazy beliefs. That's kind of the problem I'm having, personally, in finding a pro I can work with.

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Offline Jay_One

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This thread is of particular interest to me, because the subject is one that I'm particularly weak on. The Jungian theories seem a bit whack to me, in fact a lot of psychology bothers me.

I like Neuroscience, you can physically observe what's happening in the brain and link it to various phenomena.

This is where I'm unsure; on where the lines in between neuroscience, psychiatry and psychology. I don't know if some or all mental illness is observable by brain malfunction. I understand that the mechanics of things like depression are understood, so we can treat it in different ways.

Psychology is my biggest gripe though, because it's "in the mind", it seems to me that most of what's understood is based mainly on empirical generalization. I don't know if our understanding of the way are thoughts are processed is based on any more than speculation or whether there is proven links. Not that clinical studies and empiric observation aren't evidence, but isn't there anything else we base our understanding on?

That was a car crash of a post. Maybe I can form my replies better than that.
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Offline WC

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Well, Jay-One, I didn't know how to kick this thread off. I wouldn't worry about a car-crash post. You've outlined a bushel of my own wonderings. I need to get my thoughts in order on this subject as well, but I needed to start somewhere. I know we have some people on the boards that have some interest in these matters from all kinds of different angles.

As for me, as a lot of people here know, I'm bipolar with some panic/anxiety disorder crap. I started seeing a psychologist back in '85 at the age of 6. A whole lifetime later I'm still struggling with this crap. My kingdom for a fucking non-quack professional.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 04:29:05 PM by Wicked Combover »

Offline WC

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http://therapistproject.org/
Get out!

Oh, there's this bit of text right now:
Quote
Currently we are only registering therapists.
The database will be available for searching soon.
So, no searching for therapists and no TBA for availability of this feature  :(

But this is extremely encouraging;
Quote
There are many secular people in your community that have mental health needs. Unfortunately, many secularists report that they cannot find a secular counselor in their community. We know there are often many secular therapists, but they cannot openly advertise as secular for fear of losing clients or other negative social and professional consequences. By registering you increase the likelihood that secular clients will find you and they will be able to avoid therapists who allow their religious, spiritual or supernatural beliefs to inform their therapeutic approach.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 04:37:02 PM by Wicked Combover »

Offline Karyn

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They just started the database about a month ago, so it needs time to fill with therapists.  Get the word out, and hopefully they'll be able to open the database soon.

This thread is of particular interest to me, because the subject is one that I'm particularly weak on. The Jungian theories seem a bit whack to me, in fact a lot of psychology bothers me.


Don't worry, it is.

Quote

I like Neuroscience, you can physically observe what's happening in the brain and link it to various phenomena.



Unfortunately, that doesn't really help us with most of what's in the DSM.  Mental illness is far more complex than what can be seen with the tools we currently have.

Quote

This is where I'm unsure; on where the lines in between neuroscience, psychiatry and psychology. I don't know if some or all mental illness is observable by brain malfunction. I understand that the mechanics of things like depression are understood, so we can treat it in different ways.



Neuroscience:  figuring out how what regions of the brain does what, how it does it and how we can manipulate it.  This can also include things that don't fit under psychiatry and psychology, like Parkinson, epilepsy and general perceptions.
Psychiatry/Psychiatrists:  The use of medications and chemicals to help with mental illness, basically.
Psychology/ists:  The use of cognitive and behavioral therapies to help with mental illness and stress, basically.

Quote

Psychology is my biggest gripe though, because it's "in the mind", it seems to me that most of what's understood is based mainly on empirical generalization. I don't know if our understanding of the way are thoughts are processed is based on any more than speculation or whether there is proven links. Not that clinical studies and empiric observation aren't evidence, but isn't there anything else we base our understanding on?



There is a lot of evidence that behavioral and cognitive therapy can do a world of wonders on many of the more mild mental illnesses, such as phobias and anxiety.  It's an expensive and sometimes a very long process, but it can certainly turn someone's life around.


I seem to know a lot about this subject.  I took 5 courses in college on this subject, but I've learned a lot more outside of college by reading various books.  I'll make some good recommendations:

Don't Believe Everything You Think   A good place for the basics.

Mistakes Were Made But Not By Me  Excellent look on cognitive dissonance.

Anything by Oliver Sachs.  He has some of the most amazing case studies.

Phantoms in the Brain  Also some great case studies with more neuroscience than Oliver Sachs.

Madness Explained  An excellent overview on mental illness and a conglomeration of ground breaking studies.  Really gets to the meat of the thought processes going on when someone is experiencing various mental problems.  I'm considering reading it again soon.
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Big Ideas podcast has a series going on the subject right now.

http://bigideas.tvo.org/


Offline WC

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There is a lot of evidence that behavioral and cognitive therapy can do a world of wonders on many of the more mild mental illnesses, such as phobias and anxiety.  It's an expensive and sometimes a very long process, but it can certainly turn someone's life around.

It's like clockwork it seems; I think I find someone offering to do CBT with me, and I swear, by the third visit we're arguing about his/her new age crap. Sometimes I try to go along with the meditation techniques they assure are part of an effective CBT course of treatment... But I always lose it when they start pushing me to buy their "self help" CDs or suggest I purchase some nonsense old age/new age literature that they conveniently have in the bookshelf, or vitamins from their inventory. It's usually there I walk out for good. I've lost track of how many times this has happened. Christ, at eighteen I was seeing a psychologist (in SLC) who gave me a copy of the Book of Mormon and demanded, not suggested, but demanded I read it if I wanted to get better. Yeah, that was the last visit with that quack.

Offline Karyn

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There is a lot of evidence that behavioral and cognitive therapy can do a world of wonders on many of the more mild mental illnesses, such as phobias and anxiety.  It's an expensive and sometimes a very long process, but it can certainly turn someone's life around.


It's like clockwork it seems; I think I find someone offering to do CBT with me, and I swear, by the third visit we're arguing about his/her new age crap. Sometimes I try to go along with the meditation techniques they assure are part of an effective CBT course of treatment... But I always lose it when they start pushing me to buy their "self help" CDs or suggest I purchase some nonsense old age/new age literature that they conveniently have in the bookshelf, or vitamins from their inventory. It's usually there I walk out for good. I've lost track of how many times this has happened. Christ, at eighteen I was seeing a psychologist (in SLC) who gave me a copy of the Book of Mormon and demanded, not suggested, but demanded I read it if I wanted to get better. Yeah, that was the last visit with that quack.


Yeah, I suppose I should have qualified that with a GOOD psychologist.  Unfortunately, the industry is also full of woo that you have to wade through.  It's sortof like looking for a personal trainer.  If you get the right one, they can do you a world of good, and they know their shit, but most of them are there to sell you on their method or pill.  I wish there were better controls.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20599133
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Offline Jay_One

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I've seen many of Oliver Sach's talks before, he's a really engaging speaker, I'll look forward to reading his books.

And thanks for the other book suggestions Karyn.

CBT and the like appear to work, but how well is the mechanism understood?

EDIT: Ah, I see Phantoms in the Brain is by Ramachandran, another person I've seen good stuff from.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 05:20:23 PM by Jay_One »
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