Topic: My Skeptical alarms are going off......intermittent fasting guys? (Eat Stop Eat)

[lonely moa]

When we were hunter/gatherers we were constantly active, so it wasn't exactly an issue. However, with the sedentary lifestyle most people tend to have these days, we need to regulate our bodies. Eating and sleeping on a regular schedule is a big part of that. We aren't hunter/gatherers now. Nor does the fact that, during part of human history, we were hunter/gatherers mean that our entire system is tuned to that evolutionarily. Remember, not all evolutionary traits are beneficial, and if one trait is present but, as in the case where during that time we wouldn't need to worry about how our body responds to a sedentary lifestyle, the trait isn't overtly harmful, then it won't necessarily be selected against either.

we are still hunter gatherers.  a hundred thousand generations is our blueprint.

[Haricots]

The fact that something differs from our "environment of evolutionary adaptedness" doesn't mean that it is bad.
Our adaptions might be "tuned" to that environment, but that environment was never tuned for us.
I see no more reason to look at hunter gatherers for guidance on diet than on hygiene.
Differences between how modern humans live and how hunter gatherers lived can be an interesting thing to consider when making hypothesis about causes for diseases of affluence, but blindly following an imagined hunter gatherer's diet is just silly.

OnT:
The studie(s?) that I've read on intermittent fasting were with fasting for something like 19 hours every day and eating the whole day's of calories in a short span of time.
It looked at muscle gain and fat to muscle ratio on people that trained (IIRC) and showed positive results.

[341gerbig]

Sometimes I skip lunch, get home from work at around 5:30 and eat dinner around 6:30 or 7:00

Admittly, I am hungry when I get home, but I cook my dinner and eat that time.

I find that if I eat lunch at work I am often still hungry when I get home, so sometimes skipping helps me eat less calories (I don't over compensate with a larger-than-average dinner)

It's definitely best not to over-compensate. I skip lunch myself often enough if work is busy. Basically, when you're on a regular schedule, your body expects food at certain times. When you aren't on a regular schedule, your body will store more fats for energy because it doesn't know when you'll eat next. In the case of hunter/gatherers in the evolutionary chain, it would have done the exact same thing, except with their active lifestyle, they'd burn those fats off pretty easily. Now, if you're eating at random, and your body stores extra fats, you aren't necessarily burning it off, which reduces energy and increases weight. If you can eat and sleep on a regular schedule and keep semi-active, you can regulate pretty well and your body will work with you instead of against you.

The book I read disproves these "storing extra fat" misconceptions about fasting, using multiple peer reviewed papers as sources while doing so.

[neurotraveller]

Sometimes I skip lunch, get home from work at around 5:30 and eat dinner around 6:30 or 7:00

Admittly, I am hungry when I get home, but I cook my dinner and eat that time.

I find that if I eat lunch at work I am often still hungry when I get home, so sometimes skipping helps me eat less calories (I don't over compensate with a larger-than-average dinner)

It's definitely best not to over-compensate. I skip lunch myself often enough if work is busy. Basically, when you're on a regular schedule, your body expects food at certain times. When you aren't on a regular schedule, your body will store more fats for energy because it doesn't know when you'll eat next. In the case of hunter/gatherers in the evolutionary chain, it would have done the exact same thing, except with their active lifestyle, they'd burn those fats off pretty easily. Now, if you're eating at random, and your body stores extra fats, you aren't necessarily burning it off, which reduces energy and increases weight. If you can eat and sleep on a regular schedule and keep semi-active, you can regulate pretty well and your body will work with you instead of against you.

The book I read disproves these "storing extra fat" misconceptions about fasting, using multiple peer reviewed papers as sources while doing so.

"The book I read" is a really informative reference.

[341gerbig]

Sometimes I skip lunch, get home from work at around 5:30 and eat dinner around 6:30 or 7:00

Admittly, I am hungry when I get home, but I cook my dinner and eat that time.

I find that if I eat lunch at work I am often still hungry when I get home, so sometimes skipping helps me eat less calories (I don't over compensate with a larger-than-average dinner)

It's definitely best not to over-compensate. I skip lunch myself often enough if work is busy. Basically, when you're on a regular schedule, your body expects food at certain times. When you aren't on a regular schedule, your body will store more fats for energy because it doesn't know when you'll eat next. In the case of hunter/gatherers in the evolutionary chain, it would have done the exact same thing, except with their active lifestyle, they'd burn those fats off pretty easily. Now, if you're eating at random, and your body stores extra fats, you aren't necessarily burning it off, which reduces energy and increases weight. If you can eat and sleep on a regular schedule and keep semi-active, you can regulate pretty well and your body will work with you instead of against you.

The book I read disproves these "storing extra fat" misconceptions about fasting, using multiple peer reviewed papers as sources while doing so.

"The book I read" is a really informative reference.

"Eat Stop Eat"

The book in the OP.

[pandamonium]

Hey gerbig, maybe you could post some of the references from the book for those of us too lazy/too poor to buy the book.

[neurotraveller]

Hey gerbig, maybe you could post some of the references from the book for those of us too lazy/too poor to buy the book.

My thoughts exactly. So far, from reading about this "diet" on the web, it has soooo many hallmarks of a fad scam. The only things I'm finding to support it are sites trying to sell it, or those focused on alt med and diet fads.

[pandamonium]

Hey gerbig, maybe you could post some of the references from the book for those of us too lazy/too poor to buy the book.

My thoughts exactly. So far, from reading about this "diet" on the web, it has soooo many hallmarks of a fad scam. The only things I'm finding to support it are sites trying to sell it, or those focused on alt med and diet fads.

If they start selling it at Whole Foods, you can be sure it's probably crap. I'll keep an eye out.

[Murmur]

Well, I know this doesn't help much, as it is anecdotal, but my brother who is just gone 41 has been struggling with his weight since he was a teenager. His preferred kind of diet was the fast, he would stop eating for two to three days at a time in order to lose weight.

3 or 4 years ago he found out he had a thyroid problem and the fasting had made it worse. It has now been removed and he is on drugs for the rest of his life. He would have had the thyroid problem one way or another, but he made it much worse by fasting every couple of weeks. We know he also used to purge when he was younger and possibly could have continued later on in life (just become more clever about hiding it).

TL:DR - Fasting in my experience makes any problems you may have that are latent worse.

[Soldier of FORTRAN]

Two to three days at a time?  And purging, too?  Please tell me he has seen a psychologist!

[Tatyana]

I am starting one of the variations of the intermittent fasting diets.

Every day I have a set number of calories I eat, which right now is 2100 kcal.

I stop eating at around 10-11 pm at night.

I don't start eating again until around 11-12 pm the next day, so typically 12-14 hours.

I quite like it, right now I am not hungry in the morning, so it isn't an issue, and I like not being hungry at night because I eat most of my calories in the afternoon and evening.

[lonely moa]

I am starting one of the variations of the intermittent fasting diets.

Every day I have a set number of calories I eat, which right now is 2100 kcal.

I stop eating at around 10-11 pm at night.

I don't start eating again until around 11-12 pm the next day, so typically 12-14 hours.

I quite like it, right now I am not hungry in the morning, so it isn't an issue, and I like not being hungry at night because I eat most of my calories in the afternoon and evening.

Interesting.  A twelve hour window.  Do you have plans of making it smaller in the future? Are you doing this for general health, muscle building or weight control?

I naturally have an 13 hour eating window, fasting, I guess, from 2000 to 0700 (if I don't count that cup of bulletproof coffee at 0530).  I'm never very hungry in the morning but I eat a rather large breakfast anyway.  Eating a proper lunch (for me) is generally inconvenient.

[Tatyana]

I am starting one of the variations of the intermittent fasting diets.

Every day I have a set number of calories I eat, which right now is 2100 kcal.

I stop eating at around 10-11 pm at night.

I don't start eating again until around 11-12 pm the next day, so typically 12-14 hours.

I quite like it, right now I am not hungry in the morning, so it isn't an issue, and I like not being hungry at night because I eat most of my calories in the afternoon and evening.

Interesting.  A twelve hour window.  Do you have plans of making it smaller in the future? Are you doing this for general health, muscle building or weight control?

I naturally have an 13 hour eating window, fasting, I guess, from 2000 to 0700 (if I don't count that cup of bulletproof coffee at 0530).  I'm never very hungry in the morning but I eat a rather large breakfast anyway.  Eating a proper lunch (for me) is generally inconvenient.

Right now it is weight loss, but I always have muscle gain at the back of my mind.

As my body fat goes down, I will probably have to decrease the fasting time.

[Karyn]

I try to eat dinner early and then don't eat until after my morning workout.  It usually comes out to about a 10 hour fasting.  I've considered moving this to be more like 12 hours, but I'm so damn hungry and sleepy after my morning work out, I'm just not sure I could take it.

[lonely moa]

I try to eat dinner early and then don't eat until after my morning workout.  It usually comes out to about a 10 hour fasting.  I've considered moving this to be more like 12 hours, but I'm so damn hungry and sleepy after my morning work out, I'm just not sure I could take it.

...then don't!