Topic: Scouts

[Citizen Skeptic]

Exactly how hard is it to do all the cool things that Scouting offers (hiking, camping, fishing, science-activities, first-aid, etc etc etc) without actually being in the Scouts?

Most the baseline activities themselves aren't too complex to arrange. It's the group dynamic that's hard to manage without a larger organization. Five kids competing against each other is a completely different dynamic than those same five kids going on to compete against other troops.

Why does it always have to be a competition?


Anyways, I was a cub scout, and a boy scout for a few years and I was christian at the time.  I was on camp staff for a summer and kept my atheism to myself.

I wouldn't have my kid be a scout.  For one thing, many scout troops are very focused on advancing in rank and mass producing Eagle Scouts.  "Moar badges!"  I could give two shits and I don't think it's a good thing to convince kids to care about meaningless crap like that.  Then there's the religion thing, which is an obvious turnoff.  Plus, if my hypothetical son turned out to be a homosexual, I wouldn't want him to be ostracised for it.

And also boyscout "camping" sucks.  Bigtime.  As a kid I would go camping with my family, and boyscout camping was always lame in comparison.  Too much structure, and bullshit liability rules about everything.

I, on the otherhand, loved it. And the mountaineering explorer post I belonged to just focused on bagging peaks and rock climbing. I didn't enjoy being a cub scout as much but it helped me to integrate into american culture quicker.

It may be that the scout troops out in the mountains are a different beast than those in the Chicago suburbs.

The post I was in was in Southeast LA. I think it's mostly a function of the scout master how they run the show. Our guy was not religious.

[st3class]

I know that Mormons are big into scouting these days.

This is very very true. A lot of Mormon churches use their troop as essentially a youth group for boys. In my experience, this is where a lot of the Eagle Scout mills come out of. The Mormon Church's support of the BSA is also why they are so adamant about excluding gays and atheists. Them and the Catholic Church have told the Scouts in no uncertain terms that if they allow gays and atheists, they will retract their support.

I do think it depends very much on the troop. My fiancee's brother was in a troop that never did anything, and he quit soon. My troop went out of their way to as many high adventure and awesome things as possible, with a minimum of religion. The only religion we ran into was "spirituality" talks from our non-religious/Buddhist/New Age Scoutmaster (who happened to be my father). Through our troop I tried many many things that I never would have been exposed to, and my parents never would have known to expose me to:

Caving, Rock Climbing, Horseback riding, backpacking, rafting, orienteering, exploration of cities from Eugene to Seattle, llama wrangling, the list goes on.

[Beleth]

I was in Scouts (both Cub and Boy). I think I made it to Star (two levels below Eagle) before I discovered an Explorer Scout post that focused on astronomy, and switched to that.
Spawn (my son) was in Cub and is now in Boy.
His pre-move (in California) Cub Scout pack met in the school he went to.
His post-move (in Illinois) Cub pack and Scout troop both meet in a church.

I think it's important to be knowledgeable about the culture you are being raised in. Here in Suburbia, church is a sizable part of culture. I want him to know who Adam and Eve and Noah and Jesus were, and why other people revere them, even if he ends up not revering them himself.

After investigating the Mormon influence in Scouts, I've come to the conclusion that it's only really noticeable way high up in the organization, at Council level and above. Nothing trickles down to pack, den, or troop leaders, and so it never gets to the boys.

[Halleyscomet/Wakefield]

After investigating the Mormon influence in Scouts, I've come to the conclusion that it's only really noticeable way high up in the organization, at Council level and above. Nothing trickles down to pack, den, or troop leaders, and so it never gets to the boys.

Well, except for the "Steel Bow of Nephi" merit badge.

[jaypee]

Last night I built a fire using methods I learned in scouting. It took me forever and the fire was crap, but it was fun to do.

[Citizen Skeptic]

The coolest thing about being a scout was sleeping under the stars with just a sleeping bag. We never used tents.

[jaypee]

We always had tents, or cabins in the winter. Occasionally we would sleep in tents in the winter.

Of course, you grew up in warmer climes, no? Can't really sleep outdoors in New England

[Shibboleth]

The coolest thing about being a scout was sleeping under the stars with just a sleeping bag. We never used tents.

Here in Minnesota you need at least a bug net most nights.

[Citizen Skeptic]

The coolest thing about being a scout was sleeping under the stars with just a sleeping bag. We never used tents.

Here in Minnesota you need at least a bug net most nights.

I've done most my camping in the Eastern/Western Sierras. Not many bugs except for mosquitoes around some of the streams and rivers down in the valley.

[st3class]

Can't really sleep outdoors in New England

Likewise in Oregon 

Though I build a mean snow cave.

[arthwollipot]

I was a Scout. It's not normally something I like to admit in polite company.

[amysrevenge]

I lived too far from civilization for there to be scouts.  But my dad was a honest-to-god fur trapper/hunting guide, so I made out OK.

Hint:  people who make their living in the wilderness are early-adopters of every useful technology they can get their hands on, while dabblers/vacationers cling to traditional ways.

[Kayto]

Shibboleth, It sounds like your Scouting situation is pretty good. I tried Brownies (like Cub Scouts but for girls), they only seemed to mention God in the pledges. But I did not stay in the group. It was not for me.

Halleyscomet/Wakefield mentioned Campfire USA (formerly Campfire Girls ---- now it's for boys and girls). I was in that for almost all of elementary school and the beginning of Junior Highschool. It is a secular group. Many Christian girls in the area where I lived joined Campfire Girls because the leaders were "better" and the groups were MUCH more active as compared to Girl Scouts. None of the activities were mandatory, so if you did not like camping you could choose to not go on the camping trips. There were many different ways to earn beads --- if that was important to you. There was a big summer camp in the area where I lived (metro Detroit) - Camp Wathana which welcomed not only Campfire Girls but also boys (even though the organization did not have membership for boys at that time). I went to the Horse Camp portion of Camp Wathana - it was one of the highlights of my childhood.

If anyone has kids and is thinking of a scouting-type group, I would certainly recommend looking into Campfire USA:

http://www.campfireusa.org/index.aspx

[worldslaziestbusker]

My son and myself take part in Scouts. I was wondering how people on this message board felt about it since there is a strong Christian aspect to Boy and Cub Scouts.

Here's an opportunity to gather some empirical experience on the sub-lethal religious oppression you have been so quick to dismiss when people who want a secular society complain about the way religious mandates fuck with their lives.
Try telling your fellow Scout leaders and district administrators that you are bi-sexual.  See how that goes and report back.  I look forward to hearing about your experiences. 

[Shibboleth]

This thread smells like rich mahogany.