Topic: What should JREF do to make it better?

[David E.]

If attendance really does go down this year, I bet he will probably take it more seriously.  There is only so much an organization can do, and be responsible for when it comes to thousands of people interacting with each other; especially with alcohol involved.

How about making TAM a dry event?  That would cut down on the harassment.   

 

[Hanes]

How about making TAM a dry event?  That would cut down on the harassment.   

You shut your whore mouth right now!


Great thoughts Meg, I really like the idea of sending out a survey.  Now that you mention it, I'm surprised they don't do that already, at least with respect to other things (favorite/least favorite part etc). 

[David E.]

How about making TAM a dry event?  That would cut down on the harassment.   

You shut your whore mouth right now!


Great thoughts Meg, I really like the idea of sending out a survey.  Now that you mention it, I'm surprised they don't do that already, at least with respect to other things (favorite/least favorite part etc).

But a dry TAM would absolutely cut down on the sexual harassment.  I guess there are just certain steps that are unwilling to be taken to promote the safety of people. 

[goodthink]

This

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/2012/05/31/d-j-grothe-tackles-the-problem-of-harassment/

Seems to me to be an excellent post. apparently, DJ has received reports on a couple of speakers that harassed specific women, but for some reason does not deem them to be official reports. I don't know what to think about this. It seems DJ was even more wrong than I thought.

Here's the problem I see.


One, whatever policy is in place should be carried out and when available, data compiled. Although, in this situation, it appears the mere perception of danger overrides thinking, so it's a double edged sword - meaning no amount of data showing TAM to be safe will affect whether or not women feel it is safe.


Two, exactly what is 'harassment' exactly? There seems to be very wide range, from a joke on twitter to attempted rape? The inclusion of one seriously undercuts the seriousness of the other and makes any meaningful discussion impossible.


Three, the fact no amount of data and apparently regardless of the incident rates - women will feel unsafe does point to the fact certain people (not all) are fear-mongering. That is, overstating exceptions and presenting them as the rule, thereby scaring off other women.


As for fixes:


Make policy public, and make the implementation policy and reporting of incidences compulsory broadly, for women, for men, for speakers etc..


Create safer places that register with TAM to be in compliance with a specific code of conduct for patrons, servers etc and branded as such with staff on hand to effect rescues or ejections.


Don't hide the statistics. Make a report of it. Publish the data. Let people know what the real threats are. At the very least you remove a bullet - though this seems to be somewhat ineffectual.


Have a list of speakers who have harassed women. But also have a jury panel to look at the evidences. Have a trial or hand the information over to civic authorities. If a law is broken, have the infraction addressed.


Clearly define what harassment is and isn't.

[David E.]

How many reports of harassment will it take to make their efforts seem like a failure?  Even if those reports happen outside of the general arena of TAM?  Will one blog post ruin it?  Two?

[MisterMarc]

JREF's problem is that they are trying to build community in a way that isn't totally dry and boring. They are having speakers and talks all day, then trying to bring together speakers and thousands of attendees in social events at night. This is a no-win strategy. If they want to eliminate (or mostly eliminate) complaints they need to do a few things:

1. Stop having the event in Vegas.
2. Stop having the event in the same hotel where attendees are staying.
3. Stop having evening social events.
4. Stop serving alcohol.
5. Stop serving meals.
6. Forbid parties by attendees, unless they specifically tell party-goers that they are not a TAM event.

Reduce casual social interaction to near-zero, keep the event 100% professional. Unfortunately, this will result in attendance dropping to about 100 people, but that will also make misbehavior less likely. So it's a win-win situation.

[David E.]

Sexual (insert almost anything here) in Vegas?  Inconceivable! 

The people going to these events are mostly adults.  Some will need to remember to act like adults.

[Lzrd]

Clearly define what harassment is and isn't.

Conscript the women subjected to it and draft a list of points. Transmogrify it into a set of standards applicable to the situation.
I'm afraid I can't be more elaborate, as I have no idea what is reasonable.


And to MisterMarc, is it really, truly too much to ask that people behave themselves? Shouldn't we be trying to change the people, rather than the event? Or at least emphasizing that?

[goodthink]

Well, I hope you accept Rebecca sexually harassed Hitchens, and as such, should be banned from publicly speaking. *






*statement is sarcasm and is an argument to the absurd. Statement presupposes that endless and open flirting with someone who patently rejects all advances will be considered harassment in any code written up, and it also assumes a double standard will exist.

[Hanes]

How about making TAM a dry event?  That would cut down on the harassment.   

You shut your whore mouth right now!


Great thoughts Meg, I really like the idea of sending out a survey.  Now that you mention it, I'm surprised they don't do that already, at least with respect to other things (favorite/least favorite part etc).

But a dry TAM would absolutely cut down on the sexual harassment.  I guess there are just certain steps that are unwilling to be taken to promote the safety of people.

Uh... ya of course there are.

To remove absolutely all harassment, every attendee would need their own personal chapparone.  Where the JREF wants to draw the line between that and zero enforcement is an open question.

[MisterMarc]

And to MisterMarc, is it really, truly too much to ask that people behave themselves? Shouldn't we be trying to change the people, rather than the event? Or at least emphasizing that?

If that is their goal, they're going to fail. The only thing they have control over is the event. Given a large enough population, people will always misbehave.

[Johnny Slick]

Clearly, the best answer here is to stop inviting women. All they ever do is whinge about sexual harassment.

[goodthink]

Clearly, the best answer here is to stop inviting women. All they ever do is whinge about sexual harassment.

Or start your own Con, publicly rake the one you were associated with and take all the whinging ppl with you.

[Johnny Slick]

Clearly, the best answer here is to stop inviting women. All they ever do is whinge about sexual harassment.

Or start your own Con, publicly rake the one you were associated with and take all the whinging ppl with you.

Nah, better be on the safe side and eliminate all the women. Sure, some of them might not act uppity now but once they get an idea into their cute little heads you know how hard it is to stop them.

[stonesean]

Clearly, the best answer here is to stop inviting women. All they ever do is whinge about sexual harassment.

Or start your own Con, publicly rake the one you were associated with and take all the whinging ppl with you.

You mean like the Skepchick con that RW actively promotes during her post slamming the JREF and DJ?