Author Topic: Regarding Current Events  (Read 6354 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline goodthink

  • Deleted
  • Well Established
  • *
  • Posts: 1790
Re: Regarding Current Events
« Reply #210 on: Jun 05, 2012, 01:38:00 AM »
Reading Karyn's posts and DrMeg;s makes me feel very sympathetic for Watson. I really do get how a prolonged period of abuse at the hands of others can narrow your view of the world and make you bitter eventually.


I get it. I want to just hug everyone who has been hurt. But I can't. Can't. Not an issue of I wouldn't. Or a lack of want.


I think a lot of people have issues teasing apart the different discussions. My heart lies with Watson. I know few will believe that, but it does. No one should have to put up with being threatened or bullied in an attempt to silence them - ever. If the discussion was about the bullying of Watson, I would defend her. And that's where my sympathy ends.


Being mentally ill affords me a different view of life than most I think. A big part of my illness is that I have had an incredibly tough life, absurdly tough, to the point I find myself questioning my own recollections, even documented ones. And, a big part of it is that I have an insidious, creeping fog of irrationality that seeps in from time to time and it attempts to take control (and does more often than I am comfortable with). But, I have learned no matter what excuses I have, no matter how much I try to offset my actions and thoughts on the past or on some illness, that I have to stand up and take responsibility for all my actions - everyone.


Everything I do, everything I say is on me. I am the one who chooses how I will act when something occurs. You can call me an asshole - but at least I acknowledge whatever causes one to call me that was caused by me, not others, not the past. I have no one to blame for the way I act. This makes me uncomfortable and ill at ease at times - especially when I think of the past.


I hold others to the same standard. When I deal with my kids I try to impress upon them that it doesn't matter what others do or say, what matters is how the deal with the action or the information. No one in this life can make you do anything. No one in life can take away your ability to think before acting. No one in the life is responsible for how you present yourself, how you deal with a situation or how you rationalize your behavoir. I don't care if someone calls my son X, all I do care about is how my son acts. If my son acts poorly it's on him - end of discussion.


This can make for very comfortable talks, talks where I come of insensitive. I am not. I am anything but. If any thing I am far too sensitive. And that's the problem. One, I think, Watson needs to think about. One that seems to be institutionalised in certain groups. We have people who haven't been victimized, traumatised by the few who have. If women who haven't been victimized are afraid of being victimized it's for a reason. Watson needs to own this, as do others who have made it a point to paint a picture of the world that is slanted and skewed to their own experiences in life. If I projected my experiences on others - well, the Road wouldn't begin to convey the way the world looks.




Online pandamonium

  • Skeptical Beer Inspector
  • Global Moderator
  • Planetary Skeptic
  • *****
  • Posts: 28691
  • I'm feeling all right
    • Oodles of Doodles - My blog
Re: Regarding Current Events
« Reply #211 on: Jun 05, 2012, 02:16:09 AM »
(click to show/hide)
Something that your post reminds me of: Nobody likes to feel like they're being attacked. People in the skeptical community are known for their aggressive arguing tactics. I've felt attacked before in certain topics. I don't think that it's any one's fault, or that there is any blame to be dealt, but it's something to keep in mind when responding to things like this. It's especially hard via the written word. "What do you mean by that?" as a statement is neutral. But it can be read as either passive curiosity or aggressive demanding depending on who is reading the statement. Our biases easily color what we read.

Your post called this to mind, not because it was overly aggressive, but because it was the opposite and I felt that I could start to understand why you disagree with Rebecca. OH LOOK WE'RE NOT YELLING AT EACH OTHER AND WE'RE MAKING PROGRESS IN THIS DISCUSSION. STOP THE PRESSES.

Rillon's Law

Panda is smart!
"I'm hungry but it's ok that's why we've got a confessions stand."

Offline goodthink

  • Deleted
  • Well Established
  • *
  • Posts: 1790
Re: Regarding Current Events
« Reply #212 on: Jun 05, 2012, 03:38:35 AM »
Thank you Panda. And I have to say, you mods have done a great job in a difficult situation.

Offline Plastique

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2098
Re: Regarding Current Events
« Reply #213 on: Jun 05, 2012, 04:57:36 AM »
She did not choose to be as prominent as she is.

I don't buy that. She followed a course of blogging, joining the SGU, and public appearances. After gaining a bit of notoriety in the beginning, it would have been simple enough to cease all the public activities of her life, and fade back into obscurity if she wanted to.

She did not know how being a prominent woman in a movement full of men could make her an easy target for things less savory than marriage proposals.

I bet that's true. Not to mention that what she has chosen to publicly push seems to ignite a visceral negative reaction in a lot of men.

Nevertheless, if she's to affect any significant, meaningful change, she needs to reconsider her methods. Diplomacy is paramount when you're a proponent of ideas that often elicit such strong opposing reaction (regardless of how reasonable and valid your message).

Offline stretcher

  • Seasoned Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 749
  • I am become pants
Re: Regarding Current Events
« Reply #214 on: Jun 05, 2012, 05:18:15 AM »
I don't think I articulated my feelings well back when all of this started. The reason I'm not very critical of Rebecca regarding the current events is because of the reaction she got during Elevator Gate. To me it wasn't a big deal. I read her comments and thought that they were fair and logical. "Hey guys, this can make women uncomfortable, please don't do it". Not that I ever would have, I thought, but cool. Then a whole bunch of people really blew up on her, Dawkins dove in, etc.

So when I read that tweet I found it unfortunate. It painted her as a person that wasn't interested in fixing whatever she was complaining about, and even a little juvenile. But at the same time I assumed that her comments were coming from a source of frustration and hurt, stemming from the abuse she had to deal with from the community the last time around. And I think this conversation has run its course for me. I hope the movie ends with a series of stills showing that each character got what they wanted and lived happily ever after.

Online superdave

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 4056
  • Religious, but not spiritual
Re: Regarding Current Events
« Reply #215 on: Jun 05, 2012, 09:46:39 AM »
I don't think I articulated my feelings well back when all of this started. The reason I'm not very critical of Rebecca regarding the current events is because of the reaction she got during Elevator Gate. To me it wasn't a big deal. I read her comments and thought that they were fair and logical. "Hey guys, this can make women uncomfortable, please don't do it". Not that I ever would have, I thought, but cool. Then a whole bunch of people really blew up on her, Dawkins dove in, etc.

So when I read that tweet I found it unfortunate. It painted her as a person that wasn't interested in fixing whatever she was complaining about, and even a little juvenile. But at the same time I assumed that her comments were coming from a source of frustration and hurt, stemming from the abuse she had to deal with from the community the last time around. And I think this conversation has run its course for me. I hope the movie ends with a series of stills showing that each character got what they wanted and lived happily ever after.

seaotter became a united states senator

Offline seaotter

  • Drunkenly yelling LITTLE WING!
  • Planetary Skeptic
  • *
  • Posts: 28665
  • My homunculus is an atheist.
Re: Regarding Current Events
« Reply #216 on: Jun 05, 2012, 09:57:10 AM »
Then he tweeted the girth and the rest is history.
"There is no use trying," said Alice; "one can't believe impossible things." Lewis Carroll

Offline Louie

  • Actually three chimps tag-teaming a keyboard.
  • Global Moderator
  • Well Established
  • *****
  • Posts: 1970
  • Let the elephant make everything kushtee.
Re: Regarding Current Events
« Reply #217 on: Jun 05, 2012, 06:28:08 PM »
Louie became the twenty-third most succesful industrial solvent salesman in the Eastern Netherlands region. He died from a massive coronary at the age of 52, whilst in the company of a cheap Lithuanian prostitute at a truck-stop. He left an unsightly wife and three underachieving kids deeply in debt.
"It can't end like this. Tell them I said something." - Pancho Villa's last words (1923).

Offline seaotter

  • Drunkenly yelling LITTLE WING!
  • Planetary Skeptic
  • *
  • Posts: 28665
  • My homunculus is an atheist.
Re: Regarding Current Events
« Reply #218 on: Jun 05, 2012, 06:33:32 PM »
There's a transit happening!
"There is no use trying," said Alice; "one can't believe impossible things." Lewis Carroll

Online pandamonium

  • Skeptical Beer Inspector
  • Global Moderator
  • Planetary Skeptic
  • *****
  • Posts: 28691
  • I'm feeling all right
    • Oodles of Doodles - My blog
Re: Regarding Current Events
« Reply #219 on: Jun 07, 2012, 12:25:23 AM »
pandamonium was never heard from again. OR WAS SHE?!?!

Rillon's Law

Panda is smart!
"I'm hungry but it's ok that's why we've got a confessions stand."

Offline BenBurch

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 231
    • http://www.WhiteRoseSociety.org/
Re: Regarding Current Events
« Reply #220 on: Jun 19, 2012, 11:53:27 PM »
OK, so why all the drama?  Can't figure out why there needs to be any.

If I could offer constructive criticism of RW;  Show prep.  Focus on show prep.

That is all.

 

personate-rain