Topic: Feminism in the Scientific Field and Scepticism Movement

[EhJayArr]

Well said, skepticalMusic.

I don't understand why it's so hard to explain to a group of skeptics why you should be aware of biases in your everyday life.

Yeah, we're probably just dumb for not agreeing with you. 

I think that being hypersensitive to any conceivable, highly subjective "bias" is counterproductive. I think if somebody was raised to open doors for women, it is an example of sexism within society, but it would be inaccurate to label that person as sexist. My ex wanted every door opened for her always; would it have been sexist of me to oblige her? I realize that you and I will differ on this... but don't act like I'm an idiot for having different opinions on such a subjective question.

Who's labeling anyone sexist? I said the act is sexist. That doesn't make the person sexist. How often do I need to say this before it sinks in? And it's important to point these things out not to be contrarian or overly critical but because, as evidenced by the numerous "LOL I KNOW GIRLS WHO EXPECTED THAT", it's not something that people think about. And it's a small thing, too.

I think we both get it, and disagree about what "it" means.  Saying "I don't understand why this is so hard to explain to you" and "how often do I need to say this before it sinks in" is no different than "you disagree with me because you're dumb." Not cool!

[pandamonium]

Well, it's frustrating when people mangle what I say and bring up strawman positions of my own. So stop it. My intent is always to seperate the action from the person.

[EhJayArr]

Well, it's frustrating when people mangle what I say and bring up strawman positions of my own. So stop it.

What did I mangle, and which strawmen have I created? I'm not trying to get into a slap-fight here, but I don't think I've done what you say I've done.

My intent is always to seperate the action from the person.

Excellent. We are in complete agreement there.

[Cowtown Cody]

I don't understand why it's so hard to explain to a group of skeptics why you should be aware of biases in your everyday life.

Yeah, that's fair.  I'm not arguing against you so much as complaining that being aware of my biases in this case is demonstrably pretty difficult because they're harder to be aware of than usual.  That makes it even harder to acknowledge when you're doing something wrong or say, out of a paternalistic impulse that you didn't even know you harbored.

All you can really do is treat people equally and work like hell against your own preconscious biases, knowing that you won't always win.

[pandamonium]

Well, it's frustrating when people mangle what I say and bring up strawman positions of my own. So stop it.

What did I mangle, and which strawmen have I created? I'm not trying to get into a slap-fight here, but I don't think I've done what you say I've done.

I'd look it up, but women are notoriously bad at that.

I think I took the "inaccurate to label that person as sexist" comment as being directed at me/other loudmouths on this forum. I've tried to be as consistent as possible when commenting on sexist actions--again, seperating the action from the person. Not only is it counterproductive, imo, to call someone sexist (unless they actually do consistently exhibit sexist behavior), but I know personally that it is quite easy to accidentally sexist. So, yeah, I think that they way you worded your response to me is what got my goat. I've also been grouchy the last couple of days regarding feminist discussion because of all the shit-talking that was happening in the [redacted] threads.

I don't understand why it's so hard to explain to a group of skeptics why you should be aware of biases in your everyday life.

Yeah, that's fair.  I'm not arguing against you so much as complaining that being aware of my biases in this case is demonstrably pretty difficult because they're harder to be aware of than usual.  That makes it even harder to acknowledge when you're doing something wrong or say, out of a paternalistic impulse that you didn't even know you harbored.

All you can really do is treat people equally and work like hell against your own preconscious biases, knowing that you won't always win.

I think I'm cursed in that I constantly question my motivations for the things I do--more so that anyone I know, actually. I've been this way ever since I realized that events were causally linked, even if I couldn't know all of the causes (I think I was 13 or 14 at the time). So, yeah, sometimes I forget that not everyone is as meta-neurotic as I am. And, yeah, the best you can really do is know that occasionally your brain will make you do sexist/racist/genderist/homophobic things.

GUYS IS IT TIME FOR THE HUGS YET?!

[Citizen Skeptic]

*Big hug from CS.*

[seaotter]

Hug this

[pandamonium]

I can't figure out how to hug an otter without contracting rabies.

[seaotter]

People over stress about rabies. It's really not a big deal.

[Cowtown Cody]

That is an otter falsehood.

Sorry.  It won't happen again.

[EhJayArr]

*hug*

Can we talk about something otter than this now?

[seaotter]

You mustelid us in to a dead end.

[Belgarath]

I can't figure out how to hug an otter without contracting rabies.

First have the otter's teeth and claws removed.  Then hug away.

[seaotter]

Where's the sPort in that?

[pandamonium]

Where's the sort in that?

INJURYS.