Topic: Adam and Eve & Original Sin

[jomike]

If a Catholic really wants to they can believe in polygenism. Pius XIII strongly commented against the idea but didn't outright reject it.

bollocks

the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents

[jomike]

Another problem with the Adam & Eve origin story involves the matter of ensoulment.  For if there were an original Mom and Dad into whom God infused human souls, the Genesis story can work, even if it's interpreted as having taken place over a period of millions of years.

But any sort of polygenetic account raises a problem.  Because, even assuming a severe human bottleneck in the late pliestocene, there still would have been at least several thousand surviving individuals, and that raises the question: Did God ensoul all of them simultaneously?  Mitochondrial DNA evidence suggests that that must have been the case.  But that would seem absurd, and in any case is not suggested anywhere in scripture nor later doctrine.

[Neon Genesis]

There was an interesting BBC documentary I watched on youtube awhile back that made the argument that the Genesis creation account isn't an account about the origins of the universe or even about the nature of humanity but is a political allegory about the Israelite's being held in captivity during the Babylonian exile.  Under this interpretation,  the Garden of Eden represents the sacred gardens of the Jerusalem temple which were viewed by the Israelites as the dwelling place of God, Adam symbolizes a failed Jewish king that would have been in charge of the sacred gardens, and the temptation of the serpent represents the Israelites' deconversion from snake worship as they evolved from being a Canaanite polytheistic pagan cult to their own monotheistic religion.

[seaotter]

When I see Adam and Eve I think vanilla sex toys.

[Shibboleth]

If a Catholic really wants to they can believe in polygenism. Pius XIII strongly commented against the idea but didn't outright reject it.

bollocks

the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents

While I am sure you are an avid reader of Humani Generis you know that he put in slight caviats as to the possibility of polygenism.  The Magisterium and Catholic theologians have since made further comments as to the possibility of polygenism.

Theologians latch on to this statement...
"Now it is no no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin,"

While I can agree that it is a bit of a greasy move to exploit a technicality the opinion being expressed is that it leaves open the possibility of of discovering a theory of polygenism that can be reconciled. Now, to be fair, as stated earlier... the Catholic Church does believe in doctrinal development and does not view Papal Bulls as infallible. They can and have disagreed and contradicted statements made in past Papal Bulls.

[Shibboleth]

Did God ensoul all of them simultaneously?  Mitochondrial DNA evidence suggests that that must have been the case.  But that would seem absurd, and in any case is not suggested anywhere in scripture nor later doctrine.

Why would mitochondrial dna show if someone had a soul or not?

[Desert Fox]

Have heard some argue that mEve and yAdam prove the bible even though they lived at different times 

[seaotter]

It proves whoever uses that argument is an idiot.

[Desert Fox]

Trouble is that I consider most religious arguments pretty idiotic

Tried to argue that there is no evidence that spiritual experiences are anywhere other than the brain. The board is down but the person tried to argue the solipsist argument again. Not going to argue that I can prove it wrong but that the solipsist argument is pretty much a dead end and everythign we at least observe shows that the world works as if it is material

[stonesean]

I was taught evolution in the Catholic college I attended.

My wife went to Catholic school from Kindergarten to her degree in biology, and she says that none of her science teachers ever uttered anything religious in class.

[Desert Fox]

One has to wonder if they actually are religious
I am sure some are but would not be surprised if a fair number are not as well.

[MikeHz]

I was taught evolution in the Catholic college I attended.

My wife went to Catholic school from Kindergarten to her degree in biology, and she says that none of her science teachers ever uttered anything religious in class.

Other than the (required) single religion class (on Christian history), I never heard anything religious either. And, half the courses were taught by nuns.

[Neon Genesis]

It's been my experience that most of the Catholics I know are fairly moderate in their religious beliefs and don't take what the pope or church hierarchy says very seriously.

[jomike]

Did God ensoul all of them simultaneously?  Mitochondrial DNA evidence suggests that that must have been the case.  But that would seem absurd, and in any case is not suggested anywhere in scripture nor later doctrine.

Why would mitochondrial dna show if someone had a soul or not?

It doesn't.

[Desert Fox]

Did God ensoul all of them simultaneously?  Mitochondrial DNA evidence suggests that that must have been the case.  But that would seem absurd, and in any case is not suggested anywhere in scripture nor later doctrine.

Why would mitochondrial dna show if someone had a soul or not?

It doesn't.

I am still waiting for a definition of a soul