Author Topic: Mars-One  (Read 1787 times)

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Offline Traveler

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Re: Mars-One
« Reply #30 on: Jun 12, 2012, 07:23:52 PM »
Can we get in on the ground floor of the "it was all done on a sound stage" conspiracy?
If one is going to be ignorant, then one may as well make a thorough and studied job of it.

Offline Nudger1964

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Re: Mars-One
« Reply #31 on: Jun 13, 2012, 10:37:47 AM »
Its about as serious a plan as that bloke wanting to build a real star ship enterprise.
I look forward to Elon Musk fleshing out his ideas of getting man on Mars within the next 20 yrs - he has said it a number of times now, but i am still struggling to see how he thinks he will make that happen.
There are just too many unknowns and too many technologies that are only patially developed.
Man will make it to Mars by the end of the century im sure, but to accelerate that time scale by much would require an exceptionally compelling reason - perhaps curiosity may find something too enticing to put off.

What we really need is a road map to mars which systematically indentifies the problems and paths to there solution within a time frame. All we have right now is a vague undertaking that NASA will develop a heavy lift launch vehicle that will go to the moon, and then to Mars - thats not a very clear plan either - how are they going to resolve all the other issues aside from a big rocket. Where are the long term 1/3 gravity experiments at ISS!
« Last Edit: Jun 13, 2012, 10:53:54 AM by Nudger1964 »

Offline AngleWyrm

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Re: Mars-One
« Reply #32 on: Jun 14, 2012, 03:58:33 AM »
Its about as serious a plan as that bloke wanting to build a real star ship enterprise.

Did he ever get around to inventing artificial gravity plating? 'Cause it's sort of required for the ship layout.

Offline Shibboleth

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Re: Mars-One
« Reply #33 on: Jun 14, 2012, 11:07:28 AM »
If you are going to build a spaceship that looks like a Sci-fi spaceship you build it to look like the Millenium Falcon or gtfo.
common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

Offline cole

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Re: Mars-One
« Reply #34 on: Jun 14, 2012, 02:40:15 PM »
Horseman: I think it's fine to say their timeline is optimistic (not sure how far into planning these guys are, as I haven't had time to read all the FAQ).  A good friend of mine is an engineer (he sent them an email saying "Send me!" lol) and he doesn't seem to have any major concerns.

Thanks for clarifying your position, but I have no reason to believe this is a scam... like the moon landing ;)

As far as lawyers are concerned, I thought we were sending them to the bottom of the ocean?!

On a SGU podcast the panel talked about it being easiest to send people to Mars for the rest of their lives and that hundreds (if not thousands) would volunteer for such an endeavor.  If they're qualified and consenting, I don't see the legal issue (our government sends plenty of people on suicide missions lol).
Cole
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Offline Nudger1964

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Re: Mars-One
« Reply #35 on: Jun 14, 2012, 08:54:46 PM »
even if you ignor the technical problems, of which there are many, it still aint gonna happen because there is this thing called "Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space"

In this case, the state responcible is the country that permits the launch.
This is the treaty that protects celestial bodies from contamination that would be detrimental to the furthering of scientific knowledge.
In other words, until science is done with Mars....no one is going to start a colony there - no matter how good a plan they have.

Just to clarify - that dosnt mean a manned mission to Mars cannot happen, but it does mean that any such mission in the foreseeable future will have to be under strict governmental control
« Last Edit: Jun 14, 2012, 09:19:32 PM by Nudger1964 »

Offline MikeHz

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Re: Mars-One
« Reply #36 on: Jun 14, 2012, 09:03:34 PM »
Yes. By international agreement, space must remain useless to everyone.
If you still hold the same views now as you did in high school, you probably should reexamine those views.

Offline Nudger1964

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Re: Mars-One
« Reply #37 on: Jun 14, 2012, 09:38:13 PM »
actually, the implimentation of the treaty has so far struck a very reasonable balance between protection and exploration.
For example, it probably wouldnt have too much to say about anyone wanting to mine some asteroids. Individual asteroids probably wouldnt be considered of great scientific interest, as there are plenty of them.
It probably wouldnt stop anyone colonizing the moon. just stay clear of the sites nominated of scientific value....just like here on earth.
But for now Mars has much stricter restrictions as it still has broader scientific interest.

I dont really see much to quibble about with that.

Offline cole

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Re: Mars-One
« Reply #38 on: Jun 15, 2012, 02:51:45 PM »
Because government always knows what's best.
Cole
In the beginning the universe was created. This made a lot of people angry and has been widely regarded as a "bad move."
Douglas Adams, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy

Offline Citizen Skeptic

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Re: Mars-One
« Reply #39 on: Jun 15, 2012, 03:03:01 PM »
I knew the lawyers would get in the way. I didn't even know there was a treaty. Silly me.

Offline Nudger1964

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Re: Mars-One
« Reply #40 on: Jun 15, 2012, 09:51:10 PM »
you can see it as a restriction on your liberties, or you can see it as a benevolent attempt to manage space for the good of mankind.
Both are probably true, so its just a matter of the perspective you choose to use.

Offline TheDeeEm

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Re: Mars-One
« Reply #41 on: Jun 16, 2012, 11:03:43 PM »
Well, I must admit I'm not up on the law in regards to celestial bodies, but for some reason I don't think this treaty will hinder them.

First of all, if they're serious I'm sure they've done their research. It would be pretty idiotic of them to spend the billions of dollars only to be cut short at the moment of launch with "oh yeah BTW...."
Although I can see the States pulling some crap like that so they can be the first (I'm American by the way. I can bash my own country.)

Secondly, if they are successful, It will be a crucial step towards doing some really awesome science on Mars. Governments aren't going to step in to stop them if they have a convincing plan because it will provide them with a base of operations to send scientists.

But like I said, it's been awhile since I freshened up on interplanetary codes.
 

Offline Horseman

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Re: Mars-One
« Reply #42 on: Jun 17, 2012, 10:48:35 AM »
Ahh, I'm away for a few days and the topic drifts. OK, first...

Cole: One major problem I have is that the FAQ really contains nothing that isn't in that video, except that they use more words to say the same nothing. Every indication they've given is that the FAQ contains all the answers they have. So, for instance, my earlier example wasn't an exaggeration. Their current plan for dealing with radiation en route is "a reinforced area of the ship" where the astronauts can go in case of a major solar storm. No indication that they even realize that the ambient radiation would be too much during the entire trip, no indication of how they will "reinforce" this area.

I've heard the objection that most people aren't technically minded enough to care about this, but that leaves 2 possibilities. 1) They have done their homework enough to have a real technical plan, but they haven't bothered to share because most people aren't technically minded, or 2) They don't actually have a plan, but think saying things like "reinforced area" are sufficient for now. In either case, they haven't done their homework enough the make the reality tv plan work; technically minded people are their core demographic! In the first case, they are still being unnecessarily evasive. People want to know if this will work, but they are refusing to tell us how it could work. In the second case, well then this is a pipe dream at absolute best.

They are shopping this around for money, and the fact that they are so reticent about their technical plan makes it hard for me to believe that they even have a plan. If they have no plan and are still perfectly happy to ask for money, that's either a scam or a delusion. In either case, people are going to lose money in exactly the same way.


OK, now getting on to the discussion of the regulation of planetary exploration:

Yeah, it's fun to complain about governments controlling things, but hang on here. Would you rather have a responsible and publicly accountable organization like NASA be the first humans on Mars, or whatever jackasses are selected by a group of reality TV producers? One argument in favor of this whole Mars-One scheme is that one of the major people involved is a highly successful reality TV producer. Are you kidding me, that's who you want to choose our first Mars exploration team? That is literally the last possible type of person we should want at the helm of this kind of project.

Now I know, they've said that they are sending researchers there, and that's fine. I'm sure something sciencey would be done. However, their whole plan is to fund this with corporate sponsorships and a reality TV show. The people holding the checkbook are going to want to see a return on their investment, which means they will want control. I'm all in favor of commercializing space, but this is not the way to do it, and now is not the time to do it on Mars.

This isn't about governments controlling things for the sake of being big government. This is a necessary and good protection against irresponsible nonsense like this. Filming a reality TV show on Mars isn't a personal liberty that the government wants to take away from you. It's an idiotic idea that needs to be slapped down for what it is.
K. Horseman

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Offline Citizen Skeptic

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Re: Mars-One
« Reply #43 on: Jun 17, 2012, 11:41:41 AM »
Th It's an idiotic idea that needs to be slapped down for what it is.

I'm OK with this as long as we slap down one idiotic government idea.

Of course it will look like a three stooges movie, but if the shoe fits...

Offline Horseman

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Re: Mars-One
« Reply #44 on: Jun 17, 2012, 06:06:33 PM »
I think there's a board here for slapping idiotic government ideas. This one is for slapping idiotic private sector ideas, as far as I can tell.    ;D
K. Horseman

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