Topic: Are You Religious?

[goodthink]

I am spiritual, though I have great disdain for the word, in the sense it was/is used by Einstien and Dawkins.

Not sure either of them would describe themselves as spiritual.

Both have. They both expressed that they have a religious/spiritual feeling when standing before the awe of nature and natural laws.

[Plastique]

LOL, here we go again.  There are a boatload of threads that touch on this.  Like Goodthink said, there are christian atheists, in addition to the deists and christians.

Threads that touch on Beleth's beliefs, you mean?

Wait... what the hell is a Christian atheist?

[Plastique]

I am spiritual, though I have great disdain for the word, in the sense it was/is used by Einstien and Dawkins.

Not sure either of them would describe themselves as spiritual.

Both have. They both expressed that they have a religious/spiritual feeling when standing before the awe of nature and natural laws.

I'll have to take your word on that, but I guess my point is that both men's beliefs were sans anything supernatural, which the word spiritual implies.

[AxeGrrl]

Crap, I meant to change the title because people get confused and think of organized religion when the term religious is used. By religious, I just meant a belief in god.

Can we edit topics around here?  If so, given what you've written above, you should change it to 'Are you a theist?'

[goodthink]

The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection - Einstien

Still looking for the direct quote from Dawkins, but IIRC in the God Delusion he talks about the Pastor hiding in the bushes laying in wait for the non-believer to look up at the sky and feel himself part of something greater and awed by his insignifigance at the same time.

[AxeGrrl]

thinking that there is something beyond what we can comprehend.

Hmm, I'd guess that even most of us atheists think there's probably something(s) "beyond what we can comprehend".......

what differentiates us from theists is that they (usually) add 'consciousness' and/or 'intent' to said thing-beyond-our-comprehension. 

That's where the real crux of the issue is here, imo.

[goodthink]

The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection - Einstien

The finest emotion of which we are capable is the mystic emotion. Herein lies the germ of all art and all true science. Anyone to whom this feeling is alien, who is no longer capable of wonderment and lives in a state of fear is a dead man. To know that what is impenetrable for us really exists and manifests itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, whose gross forms alone are intelligible to our poor faculties - this knowledge, this feeling ... that is the core of the true religious sentiment. In this sense, and in this sense alone, I rank myself among profoundly religious men ~ [/size]Einstein

Still looking for the direct quote from Dawkins, but IIRC in the God Delusion he talks about the Pastor hiding in the bushes laying in wait for the non-believer to look up at the sky and feel himself part of something greater and awed by his insignifigance at the same time.


And I am not implying either believe in a god, but rather admit to feeling what amounts to a religious feeling sans god.

[Plastique]

Crap, I meant to change the title because people get confused and think of organized religion when the term religious is used. By religious, I just meant a belief in god.

Can we edit topics around here?  If so, given what you've written above, you should change it to 'Are you a theist?'

I don't think we can touch the title after it's posted. I'm not too concerned, people seem to be reading the thread anyway.

The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection - Einstien

Still looking for the direct quote from Dawkins, but IIRC in the God Delusion he talks about the Pastor hiding in the bushes laying in wait for the non-believer to look up at the sky and feel himself part of something greater and awed by his insignifigance at the same time.

Oh, I know the sensation, and I suspect everyone feels it at some point, I just think using "spiritual" to describe it is misleading and getting into far too ambiguous territory (for me, anyway).

[AxeGrrl]

Do you know what I think would be really helpful?  If people were forced to describe their beliefs without using any of the stock/cliche words like 'God' or 'spiritual'.

We might actually be able to get to what they actually believe that way.

So many of these damn words have so many different meanings to different people.......they muddy things more than clarify when having discussions like this, imo.

[goodthink]

The biggest issue is there is no real alternate vocabulary for mystic experiences.

[Jim S]

LOL, here we go again.  There are a boatload of threads that touch on this.  Like Goodthink said, there are christian atheists, in addition to the deists and christians.

Threads that touch on Beleth's beliefs, you mean?

Wait... what the hell is a Christian atheist?

Threads about religious skeptics, christian atheists, etc.    Search for  < christian atheist >   or < religious skeptic >  and you'll find most/all of them. 

Febo/Kwisatz Haderach is a christian athiest and has discussed it at least a couple times, I think.  He is not a believer, but enjoys the community.  Others may also like the ritual.

[goodthink]

LOL, here we go again.  There are a boatload of threads that touch on this.  Like Goodthink said, there are christian atheists, in addition to the deists and christians.

Threads that touch on Beleth's beliefs, you mean?

Wait... what the hell is a Christian atheist?

Threads about religious skeptics, christian atheists, etc.    Search for  < christian atheist >   or < religious skeptic >  and you'll find most/all of them. 

Febo/Kwisatz Haderach is a christian athiest and has discussed it at least a couple times, I think.  He is not a believer, but enjoys the community.  Others may also like the ritual.

I don't see why you can't have cultural christians like one has cultural jews.

[AxeGrrl]

The biggest issue is there is no real alternate vocabulary for mystic experiences.

Other than 'mystic' or 'spiritual'?   sure there is......the issue is getting people to describe things very specifically ~ if they had some 'experience', that means recounting it, as "i saw this, then i felt this.....etc"

That way, listeners can assess what they're actually describing instead of scratching their heads and saying "what do you mean by spiritual?"

[Tatyana]

The biggest issue is there is no real alternate vocabulary for mystic experiences.

I have mystic experienced out of my brain box.

I am so good at creating that whole 'one with the universe thing' that if I remember, I try and generate it at least once a day.

I also get it when running outdoors in beautiful locations and when I am creating something, especially with painting.

I personally think it has a lot to do with a meditative state and just being really observant and present to your environment.

It is a function of the brain, it isn't mystic or spiritual, even though it does really feel quite lovely and impressive.

[AxeGrrl]

I don't see why you can't have cultural christians like one has cultural jews.

Yeah....there are probably more cultural Jews than cultural Christians because there are far more Jewish atheists than Christian atheists   Judaism stresses adhering to the rituals/laws FAR more than it does 'belief'.