Topic: Episode #360

[Steven Novella]

This Day in Skepticism - Ray Bradbury Dies
News Items: Episode #360, Transit of Venus, Legislating Science, Science Education in California and South Korea, Vapor Storage
Magnetic Skeptical Phrases
Who's That Noisy
Your Questions and E-mails: Peer Review
Science or Fiction    

[klintistvud]

WTN: John Flansburgh

[Trinoc]

Thanks folks.

WTN: I was going to guess Franklin Chang Diaz, but the accent is wrong.

[Citizen Skeptic]

Don't worry guys, Cali has a solution to it's science education problem.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jun/06/local/la-me-science-schools-20120606

A little-noticed proposal by Gov. Jerry Brown to eliminate the second year of science as a high school graduation requirement is sparking concern among educators who fear it could deepen the academic divide among students and further erode the state's scientific and technological leadership.

 The recommendation in Brown's revised May budget is aimed at freeing the state from reimbursing local school districts for the $250-million annual cost of the second-year science course. The state has not made any payouts to school districts since the requirement was ruled a mandate in 2005, so California owes public school systems $2.5 billion in unpaid claims.

[werecow]

Man, that was one hell of a depressing new reel this week guys. }|:o/

Good show though. Onto the next 360!

[Vargonian]

WTN: John Flansburgh

This is my thought as well.  Er, at least it's one of the Johns.  It rang a bell as being from an interview in which they discussed why they (that is, They Might Be Giants) needed to update the song, "Why Does the Sun Shine?" to substitute "plasma" in place of "gas" (among other tweaks).

[Sawyer]

I have a broader question regarding the South Korea controversy:  What sort of timeline is reasonable between a scientific consensus being established in the research community and that consensus making its way into textbooks?  One of the sources I found mentioned that there were still references to recapitulation in some of the textbooks:

http://www.koreabang.com/2012/stories/evolutionary-theory-to-disappear-from-science-textbooks.html

That aspect of evolution has been abandoned decades ago, right?

I understand that there is inherent lag in communicating new scientific discoveries to publishers, and that textbooks must evolve slowly over time so that teachers can adapt to a new information environment.   There's also the concern that if a publisher cranks out a new addition every year, they are probably doing so based on financial motivation rather than improving their content.  Anyone want to throw out suggestions of what lag is acceptable?  I've got no problem with publishers being 5 years behind in most fields, but in the age of the internet maybe that is too slow.

[WooSlayer604]

A little-noticed proposal by Gov. Jerry Brown to eliminate the second year of science as a high school graduation requirement is sparking concern among educators who fear it could deepen the academic divide among students and further erode the state's scientific and technological leadership.

Hey, I have an idea to solve the budget crisis:  Why not just close all of the schools past grade 5?  After all, what need does America have of an educated work force when its largest employer is Wal-Mart?

Just a thought.

[WooSlayer604]

121.5 years until the next Venus transit of the sun, eh?

121.5 MHz is the international air distress frequency.

1+2+1+5=10.  10 is the number of letters in Jay Novella's name.

Coincidence?  I think not.  I call for an INVESTIGATION!

[Clintsc9]

In relation to the email, does anyone have an example of where peer review failed?  That is where some "discovery" was accepted by the author's peers, but could not be duplicated, assuming it is something that can be duplicated.

[robs]

The AU calculations were done with the transits in the 1760's, reasonably accurately too.  The Wikipedia page has plenty of references:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transit_of_venus#1761_and_1769

as well as:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1769_Transit_of_Venus_observed_from_Tahiti

From this page:

Using the solar parallax values obtained from the 1769 transit, Hornsby wrote in Philosophical Transitions December 1771 that "the mean distance from the Earth to the Sun (is) 93,726,900 English miles." The radar-based value used today for the astronomical unit is 92,955,000 miles. This is only a difference of eight-tenths of one percent. Considering what these astronomers had to work with, their results were "absolutely remarkable".[18]

Cook's voyage in 1769 continued on to New Zealand and Australia, becoming the first Europeans to set foot in NZ and eastern Australia. So unsurprisingly it's pretty well known in this part of the world - the transit of Venus is very much tied to Cooks voyage.

[seaotter]

Thank you for the podcast and the community.

[Tormod]

On "Legislating science".

Are you sure that this is the real motivation?

It makes sense to me that an area that has a lot of coastline real estate activity would want to settle on a model.
I don't think that the motivation was to settle on a particular model, but just that there should be a single model that everybody can refer to.
Otherwise, every project would have to call in a climatologist (or choose a published report) and maybe pit "my climatologist" against "your climatologist". No matter would be settled and the projects would be impacted by an ongoing discussion way outside their field of expertise.

Steve asked "why linear"? I don't think anybody necessarily lobbied for "linearity" because it would "serve" any given party. I think a published timetable based on a complex mathematical model would serve the same purpose. The point is to reach a common reference for future prediction on large scale projects.

Especially when calculating project costs and project margins, you DON'T want people manipulating the data or see a project plan estimation turning into the same climate debate that another project just had.

I do hope that they used climatologists to produce their linear approximation model. Granted, it is probably not accurate, but there is a benefit in locking the model in place.

But isn't the state putting itself liable for financial loss based on this model?

[Daws]

So many interesting mishearings I had during this podcast:

"sexy-testicle system"

and the website:

"e-z porn gods"?

[Daws]

Don't worry guys, Cali has a solution to it's science education problem.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jun/06/local/la-me-science-schools-20120606

A little-noticed proposal by Gov. Jerry Brown to eliminate the second year of science as a high school graduation requirement is sparking concern among educators who fear it could deepen the academic divide among students and further erode the state's scientific and technological leadership.

 The recommendation in Brown's revised May budget is aimed at freeing the state from reimbursing local school districts for the $250-million annual cost of the second-year science course. The state has not made any payouts to school districts since the requirement was ruled a mandate in 2005, so California owes public school systems $2.5 billion in unpaid claims.

This really pissed me off, as a native Californian I remember gladhanding and cheering when they mentioned CA had one of the best science education standards, and now it's all going to be undone.

Basically, what I see is, if this happens it means me and all other CA skeptics can enjoy having their job be a lot harder as a whole new generation of even more scientifically illiterate snots are raised up. Fucking thanks Jerry... I guess I should have expected this from someone who saw an acupuncturist whilst mayor in oakland.