Author Topic: This forum is suddenly taking blows to the head  (Read 1848 times)

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Offline 341gerbig

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This forum is suddenly taking blows to the head
« on: June 12, 2012, 10:27:43 AM »
We are now an apparently anti-feminist, dramatic, pocket of dumb.

I wonder what is causing this blacklash against us from some other members of the skeptical/freethought/athiest community?
Should we try to solve it, and if yes, how?

Honestly, this is one of the most balanced and intelligent forums i have ever come across, and for one simple reason. There is such a collection of rational, critical thinkers here, that people have to think about what they should post before they post it. There is anti-feminist, racist, and stupid posts here, but they are always quickly corrected.
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Offline Moloch

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Re: This forum is suddenly taking blows to the head
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2012, 10:29:51 AM »
It came from nothing, and so it shall return to nothing.


Offline teethering

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Re: This forum is suddenly taking blows to the head
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2012, 10:36:52 AM »
I see nothing that is actually a crisis of our forums.  There are people making noise because that's what people are wont to do.  It's what gets eyeballs to the blog posts.  And when they're challenged on the unsubstantiated criticisms they level at our forums, they've got nothing to back it up.

I understand why people feel insulted and offended by us collectively being called sexist or misogynist, but it really doesn't matter as much as you say it does.

Offline superdave

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Re: This forum is suddenly taking blows to the head
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2012, 11:13:17 AM »
If people are complaining, and making legit criticisms, we should take them seriously.  But I agree that this is by far one of the most civil forums that I have ever seen on the internet.
"Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe. "  -Lex Luthor

Offline Beleth

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Re: This forum is suddenly taking blows to the head
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2012, 11:31:32 AM »
I don't know...

This is different. This might be a growing pain.

I have likened the change the forum went through when I first started modding here to the change between meeting people at someone's house and meeting at the local pub. When you get too many friends to all meet at someone's house, you start going to the pub, and the rules are different there. You are expected to behave differently. Some friends don't like the change, and they get mad at the bouncer because they never needed a bouncer before, and who does this guy think he is? and so they make fun of the bouncer and eventually they find a different house to meet in. Meanwhile the vast majority of the friends don't care; they're just happy to be with friends and yeah, the bouncer's a pain in the ass sometimes but he really does have the best interests of the friends and the pub at heart.

That was a growing pain.

We've weathered dramastorms before. They're no big deal. But we've never had Rebecca publicly call us dumb before. It's kind of like a D-list actress making Joan Rivers' Ten Worst Dressed list. Very few people have ever heard of her before, but now she's been panned by a big celebrity, so now lots of people have suddenly heard how awful she is.

So now all these people who aren't members are reading very specific threads on the forum and deciding, from those threads alone, that we're all woman-haters. And, like it or not, we now have to deal with this.

This might be the growing pain that motivates us to go from local pub to hot nightclub. And the rules and behavior, again, would change. And some members will quit in protest again, and most people will shrug and adapt again.




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Offline superdave

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Re: This forum is suddenly taking blows to the head
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2012, 11:38:30 AM »
Beleth I agree.  Let's take DJ Grothe as our example of how not to deal with this problem and try to be proactive about fixing it instead of passing blame.  Even if we over react, I would rather be part of the forum that did everything it could than the one that did nothing.

 I feel kinda like when you know your parents are coming to visit for the first time and you realize your apartment is a mess.  In other words, even though I think some criticisms of the forum could have been delivered with more style and grace, they may nevertheless have a point.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 11:41:53 AM by superdave »
"Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe. "  -Lex Luthor

Offline Movius

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Re: This forum is suddenly taking blows to the head
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2012, 11:48:08 AM »
It's an internet forum. You should expect to be treated like the gutter of the internet. It's a fact of life.

Offline Neon Genesis

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Re: This forum is suddenly taking blows to the head
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2012, 02:16:58 PM »

Should we try to solve it, and if yes, how?

We could go to Stephanie Zvyan's blog, find all the harshest things she's said about men and all the offensive comments she made about SGU in the comments section, post links to them in a blog post, and warn everyone on the Internet not to go to Stephenie's blog because she's hostile to people who think for themselves.

Offline Lukas

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Re: This forum is suddenly taking blows to the head
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2012, 02:27:01 PM »

Should we try to solve it, and if yes, how?

We could go to Stephanie Zvyan's blog, find all the harshest things she's said about men and all the offensive comments she made about SGU in the comments section, post links to them in a blog post, and warn everyone on the Internet not to go to Stephenie's blog because she's hostile to people who think for themselves.

You mean like this: http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/2012/06/06/an-apology-a-mea-culpa-and-my-stated-opinion-of-dj-grothe/#comment-64092
Quote
You’ve already been told what’s wrong, you idiot. Vagina owner =/= woman.

Now, as a woman, a vagina owner, a happy user of the term “douchebag” to mean exactly what Jason means by it, someone who has faced unwarranted skepticism when I talk about harassment, and the person who is trying to get JREF to even say there will be an anti-harassment policy this year, fuck off.

(Honestly, that whole comment thread is way over my head. I am sure the questions discussed there are very important, though, why else would so many people get so riled up over it...)

Offline superdave

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Re: This forum is suddenly taking blows to the head
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2012, 02:39:38 PM »

Should we try to solve it, and if yes, how?

We could go to Stephanie Zvyan's blog, find all the harshest things she's said about men and all the offensive comments she made about SGU in the comments section, post links to them in a blog post, and warn everyone on the Internet not to go to Stephenie's blog because she's hostile to people who think for themselves.

You mean like this: http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/2012/06/06/an-apology-a-mea-culpa-and-my-stated-opinion-of-dj-grothe/#comment-64092
Quote
You’ve already been told what’s wrong, you idiot. Vagina owner =/= woman.

Now, as a woman, a vagina owner, a happy user of the term “douchebag” to mean exactly what Jason means by it, someone who has faced unwarranted skepticism when I talk about harassment, and the person who is trying to get JREF to even say there will be an anti-harassment policy this year, fuck off.

(Honestly, that whole comment thread is way over my head. I am sure the questions discussed there are very important, though, why else would so many people get so riled up over it...)


Wow.  That comment thread makes me never want to visit FTB ever again.
"Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe. "  -Lex Luthor

Offline Shibboleth

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Re: This forum is suddenly taking blows to the head
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2012, 02:43:30 PM »
It's an internet forum. You should expect to be treated like the gutter of the internet. It's a fact of life.

Shut the fuck up.
common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

Offline Neon Genesis

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Re: This forum is suddenly taking blows to the head
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2012, 03:04:45 PM »

Wow.  That comment thread makes me never want to visit FTB ever again.
The only FTB I ever read is Ed Brayton's Dispatches from the Culture Wars but I've been a long time reader from before he switched over.

Offline Desert Fox

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Re: This forum is suddenly taking blows to the head
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2012, 05:14:41 PM »
There are no plans to shut down the forum by the SGU itself I hope?
Basically, can I mostly ignore the drama if I wish?
"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
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Offline Beleth

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Re: This forum is suddenly taking blows to the head
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2012, 05:20:07 PM »
There are no plans to shut down the forum by the SGU itself I hope?
Basically, can I mostly ignore the drama if I wish?

Nope. AFAIK this is all Skepchick-related and not SGU-related.

I expect to pass through this world but once;
any good thing therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now;
let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.
-- Stephan Grellet

Offline Desert Fox

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Re: This forum is suddenly taking blows to the head
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2012, 05:32:07 PM »
There are no plans to shut down the forum by the SGU itself I hope?
Basically, can I mostly ignore the drama if I wish?

Nope. AFAIK this is all Skepchick-related and not SGU-related.

I used to visit skepchicks but I got one of those viruses that pretends to be an anti-virus and that was the new site I had been visiting.
Pain in the ass removing it.  As such, I have been avoiding their site.
"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
— Robert G. Ingersoll