Author Topic: Vegans and Vegitarians  (Read 2539 times)

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Offline McGuiver19

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Vegans and Vegitarians
« on: Jun 14, 2012, 05:28:41 PM »
I was catching up on old podcast and just learned Rebecca is a vegetarian. Is this common with skeptics? Are the rest of the show vegetarians? Is there a skeptical reason to be a vegetarian? The reason I ask is all the people I know in my personal life who are vegans or vegetarians seem to lack reality and believe in pseudoscience so I thought it was odd to find out Rebecca was a vegetarian? I could be getting this all wrong but that's ok I will change my views if anyone can clear this up for me.  :)

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Re: Vegans and Vegitarians
« Reply #1 on: Jun 14, 2012, 05:33:31 PM »
There are a fair number. Hey everybody a vegan thread!
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Re: Vegans and Vegitarians
« Reply #2 on: Jun 14, 2012, 05:46:37 PM »
There are a fair number. Hey everybody a vegan thread!

Put a fork in it, it's done. LOL

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Re: Vegans and Vegitarians
« Reply #3 on: Jun 14, 2012, 05:50:08 PM »
I was catching up on old podcast and just learned Rebecca is a vegetarian. Is this common with skeptics? Are the rest of the show vegetarians? Is there a skeptical reason to be a vegetarian? The reason I ask is all the people I know in my personal life who are vegans or vegetarians seem to lack reality and believe in pseudoscience so I thought it was odd to find out Rebecca was a vegetarian? I could be getting this all wrong but that's ok I will change my views if anyone can clear this up for me.  :)

I think the argument from the vegans goes something like reducing suffering in the world. What's the science can determine right and wrong guy? Singer?
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Offline moj

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Re: Vegans and Vegitarians
« Reply #4 on: Jun 14, 2012, 05:54:23 PM »
I was catching up on old podcast and just learned Rebecca is a vegetarian. Is this common with skeptics? Are the rest of the show vegetarians? Is there a skeptical reason to be a vegetarian? The reason I ask is all the people I know in my personal life who are vegans or vegetarians seem to lack reality and believe in pseudoscience so I thought it was odd to find out Rebecca was a vegetarian? I could be getting this all wrong but that's ok I will change my views if anyone can clear this up for me.  :)

While I am not one there are many sane, cool and smart vegetarian that I know in real life and on this boards. There are many positive health & eco benefits for going vegetarian. Hell I was one for a few years, I just never felt full and lost scary amounts of weight. Different strokes for different folks.
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Offline GodSlayer

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Re: Vegans and Vegitarians
« Reply #5 on: Jun 14, 2012, 06:45:15 PM »
What's the science can determine right and wrong guy? Singer?

Singer's a scientist, now? what does he study, Utilitology?
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Re: Vegans and Vegitarians
« Reply #6 on: Jun 14, 2012, 06:54:13 PM »
What's the science can determine right and wrong guy? Singer?

Singer's a scientist, now? what does he study, Utilitology?

Peter Sanger?

Oh not Peter singer he is awesome. Sam Harris!
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Offline Hanes

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Re: Vegans and Vegitarians
« Reply #7 on: Jun 14, 2012, 08:55:24 PM »
I was catching up on old podcast and just learned Rebecca is a vegetarian. Is this common with skeptics? Are the rest of the show vegetarians? Is there a skeptical reason to be a vegetarian? The reason I ask is all the people I know in my personal life who are vegans or vegetarians seem to lack reality and believe in pseudoscience so I thought it was odd to find out Rebecca was a vegetarian? I could be getting this all wrong but that's ok I will change my views if anyone can clear this up for me.  :)


I think the argument from the vegans goes something like reducing suffering in the world. What's the science can determine right and wrong guy? Singer?


Reducing suffering is one argument.  Just because it can't be quantified doesn't mean it's not a valid concept.  Was there ever a point in your life where you were suffering more or less than you are right now?

But it's not the only argument, and I personally don't think it's very compelling.  As a non-vegitarian, the most compelling argument for me (and the one currently battling my lazyness for control of my diet) is the environmental argument.

"In the U.S., 70% of the grain grown is fed to animals on feedlots."  According to my brother who teaches highschool ecology and could well be wrong, the rule of thumb is 10% efficiency for each step up the food chain.  That would imply that, if we ate the grain itself instead of the animals that eat the grain, we would only need 7 of that 70%.  That would drop our farm acreage down to 37% of its current total.

So if we all became vegitarians, we would save 2,349,900 km2 in the US.

That's 24% of our country.  Imagine the national parks.  Imagine the ecosystems we could restore.

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Re: Vegans and Vegitarians
« Reply #8 on: Jun 14, 2012, 09:03:51 PM »
The reality check did a show comparing vegetarian vs meat in terms of environmental impact and it wasn't a huge difference.
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Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Vegans and Vegitarians
« Reply #9 on: Jun 14, 2012, 09:05:23 PM »
There are plenty of good reasons for vegetarianism. But in my experience, all arguments for veganism tend to boil down to a naked appeal to emotion.
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Re: Vegans and Vegitarians
« Reply #10 on: Jun 14, 2012, 09:12:45 PM »
The reality check did a show comparing vegetarian vs meat in terms of environmental impact and it wasn't a huge difference.

If you need x acres of land to feed a person for t days with meat, and x/y (where y>1) to feed a person for t days with vegetables, I don't understand how there wouldn't be a difference, and the second law of thermodynamics pretty much guarentees y>>1.

I'd be interested to hear their explenation.  What is this podcast?

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Re: Vegans and Vegitarians
« Reply #11 on: Jun 14, 2012, 09:21:02 PM »
The reality check did a show comparing vegetarian vs meat in terms of environmental impact and it wasn't a huge difference.


If you need x acres of land to feed a person for t days with meat, and x/y (where y>1) to feed a person for t days with vegetables, I don't understand how there wouldn't be a difference, and the second law of thermodynamics pretty much guarentees y>>1.

I'd be interested to hear their explenation.  What is this podcast?


The reality check ottowa member of the board?

Think it was this one.

http://www.ottawaskeptics.org/the-reality-check/62-episodes/386-the-reality-check-169-comparing-animal-calories-tourette-syndrome-warm-water-prank#comment-328
« Last Edit: Jun 14, 2012, 09:23:30 PM by seaotter »
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Offline veganerd

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Re: Vegans and Vegitarians
« Reply #12 on: Jun 14, 2012, 09:30:43 PM »
no, there are no vegan skeptics.  never have been, never will be.

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Re: Vegans and Vegitarians
« Reply #13 on: Jun 14, 2012, 09:48:37 PM »
My mother isn't a strict vegetarian but sticks to chicken and fish because she has found she doesn't really prefer other types of meat.  I think that this is a perfectly fine reason for dietary habits but I've encountered arguments and statements that denigrate my mother's behavior and reasoning.  Like a lot of other issues people take beliefs on dietary habits to extremes.  At best it's silly and at worst it can destroy relationships.  I'm for letting people find out what's right for them.

I would become a vegan if I could.  I would do so for the suffering argument.   I don't think vegans necessarily lead a more moral life where they cause no suffering because they still cause suffering in others.  Industrial grain and vegetable farming does kill animals.  I've heard plenty of distasteful moralizing from vegan proselytizers and it just turns me off to the concept.  Somebody who pretends to lead a life in which he or she causes no suffering is self-delusional and dangerous.

I also don't appreciate it when vegan proselytizers claim that going vegan is easy.  It may have been for them but it ain't for me.  I have a nut allergy and an eating disorder.  Getting enough food much less healthy food isn't trivial for me.  Meeting my requirements with a vegan diet is a task I don't think I'm up to.  If I were to become vegan I wouldn't claim to lead a life free from causing suffering but I would do so in an attempt to minimize the suffering I cause.

I think people need to figure out what is right for oneself and what is healthy for oneself.  Even reasonable and rational people should arrive at different answers.  There are people who turn to pseudoscience for their reasoning but it's possible to take real science and sound logic into account in making one's decision.  When Ms. Watson first revealed that she was vegetarian, Mr. DeAngelis was shocked and the cast (with Mr. DeAngelis in particular) would rib Ms. Watson in good nature.  The rest of the cast, I believe, eats meat.  I at-least answered some of your questions.
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Re: Vegans and Vegitarians
« Reply #14 on: Jun 14, 2012, 10:03:46 PM »
Well, at this point I'll say right and wrong are human constructs. Your right is not mine. I treat others as I'd be treated as the basis of a social contract (community).

There is suffering in the world. Lots of suffering. Lots and lots of suffering. I don't see any significant value in reducing it by a fraction for a pig when the pig will not return the favor.
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